Latest post Fri, Apr 13 2018 2:07 PM by dmehalik. 8 replies.
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  • Thu, Apr 12 2018 7:15 PM

    • dmehalik
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    Why do Avid's transcodes rename the file AND media?... or am I doing something wrong?

    I've been working in Avid for about 20 years.  For a while now I've been transcoding footage in DaVinci Resolve (DNxHD36) and simply copying the mdb file into my avid bins when loading footage.  When Resolve makes the media files, the file names match that of the file.  For instance if I have a clip named "Dog_12345.mov" my avid media file is named "Dog_12345.mxf".

    Recently, I've had to learn Premiere as more and more freelance gigs are demanding it.  And it got me thinking about working in Avid using AMA linked media.  Many years ago I disregarded AMA because it was pretty much unusable playback wise when I first learned about it.  But now, it seems it's a viable option for working.  Now, I know that Transcoding is still more stable and I intend on still transcoding media and not working in AMA, but I thought maybe AMA could be useful from time to time in combination with FrameFlex for using 4k files in my 1080p projects.

    So I was doing some tests with AMA and transcoding in Avid.  I took clip "Dog_12345.mov" and transcoded it in Avid.  And Avid makes an MXF file called "Dog_1V01.D6F45ACE888EV" and renames the clip to "Dog_12345.mov.new01".  Why God Why!!!??  Now, if I want to export an AAF of this clip for finish, let's say for argument into Resolve, Resolve has trouble finding the original camera file (yes there are things you can do to help it, but it doesn't always work).  Furthermore, let's say you want to send an sequence to Premiere.  Premiere will link up to the MXF files no problem... but it link to the original camera media at all. 

    Am I doing something wrong?  Is there a setting I can change?  After years of being a staff editor and having an assistant I didn't realize that my AAF's and EDL's must have been full of issues that needed to be resolved before sending to color grade or Flame finishing.  Now I'm freelancing and prepping my own AAF's and holy moly anything that is consolidated or transcoded in Avid is a hot mess half the time.

  • Thu, Apr 12 2018 8:15 PM In reply to

    Re: Why do Avid's transcodes rename the file AND media?... or am I doing something wrong?

    I can't speak to why Avid is still working this way, but I will add that we never has issues with Resolve relinking to AAFs from transcoded media, so the .new extension isn't an issue there.

    I believe all Avid MXF files are single track only, so a video and audio clip will have V01, A01, A02, etc. variations...one for each track. Not sure if Rsolve is outputting a multi-track MXF or if you're only dealing with video at that point.

    There's no setting to change. That's the way it's been and the way it is. Will it change? Who knows...

    Symphony v8.8 | OS 10.11.6 • Nitris DX • 12-core MacPro (Mid 2012) • 36 GB RAM • Facilis Terrablock 24EX [view my complete system specs]

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  • Thu, Apr 12 2018 8:32 PM In reply to

    • dmehalik
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    Re: Why do Avid's transcodes rename the file AND media?... or am I doing something wrong?

    Kevin Klimek:

    I can't speak to why Avid is still working this way, but I will add that we never has issues with Resolve relinking to AAFs from transcoded media, so the .new extension isn't an issue there.

    I believe all Avid MXF files are single track only, so a video and audio clip will have V01, A01, A02, etc. variations...one for each track. Not sure if Rsolve is outputting a multi-track MXF or if you're only dealing with video at that point.

    There's no setting to change. That's the way it's been and the way it is. Will it change? Who knows...

    Hi, Kevin!  Thanks for taking the time with your answer!  I've been doing AAF/transcode tests between Avid, Resolve, and Premiere for 3 days straight and I'm starting to go a little batty.  So you're saying Resolve doesn't give you problems with "new.01" clips when you link to the original source files?  Hmmm.  Wonder what I'm doing wrong. It doesn't always present a problem, but often does... especially when the clip in question was consolidated.

     

  • Fri, Apr 13 2018 9:34 AM In reply to

    • Obscure
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    Re: Why do Avid's transcodes rename the file AND media?... or am I doing something wrong?

    It sounds like what you want to do is take a sequence that was cut in one platform and then conform it in another. Forget about what Avid is calling it's media files as this is not relevant.

    If you generate Avid OP-Atom MXF via Resolve, you can choose to create these files with names that match the source file. This is great if your source media all has unique names. It is a disaster if it doesn't, which is why Resolve also has a 'use unique file names' tickbox. Avid on the other hand, will generate a unique OP-Atom MXF file name as this is the only way to ensure that you don't end up with duplicate media file names in your MXF directory. It also allows Avid to manage potentially millions of media files efficiently in a way that is seamless to the end user. Think of it as Avid always having the 'use unique file names' tick-box checked.

    As I said earlier, the names of the OP-Atom MXF media files are not relevant. What matters is that when you generate your edit proxies (assuming a conform workflow), the software that is used to generate these proxies is creating files with metadata that can be used in the event of a conform. Most platforms will conform back to source media using Source File/Tape Name and Start Timecode. If you check your Avid or Resolve bins, this metadata will travel with your media files, regardless of the actual media file name.

    So, if you want to take a sequence that was cut in Avid from Avid generated OP-Atom MXF and then link it back to the source media in Resolve, all you need to do is export an AAF, bring it into Resolve and then use the conform tool to link back to the source media using the Source File/Tape Name and Start Timecode metadata contained in the .MXF files. You may need to manipulate a checkbox or two but it really is a cinch. There are plently of video's online that deal with this exact workflow.

    If you want to take a sequence that was cut in Avid and then move it to Premiere, the workflow is similar. All you need to do is get the Source File/Tape Name and Start Timecode metadata out of the Avid and then relink your Premiere project bcak to your source media using Premiere's 'Link Media' option. I haven't done this for a while but it is possible and not especially fiddly, although I think I may have had to use Relove to import the Avid AAF and then generate an XML for the Premiere relink.

    I hope this information helps - I've been dealing with this 'back end' stuff for years and I promise you that Avid is the boss for tracking and managing media!

  • Fri, Apr 13 2018 10:54 AM In reply to

    • pierreh
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
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    Re: Why do Avid's transcodes rename the file AND media?... or am I doing something wrong?

    Before I started a big project, I read those two articles, and it's been pretty helpful. Hope it helps you too:

    https://library.creativecow.net/freeman_scott/linkingmetadatatoessence/1

    http://www.avidblogs.com/how-to-roundtrip-davinci-resolve-to-avid-media-composer-tutorial/

    I know it's slightly different from what you're trying to do, but it's good knowledge and understanding of the behind the scene process.

    - Work: MacPro 2010 3.46Ghz 12 Cores 48Gig mem, int and ext Raids, Mojo DX, 10.12.6 - Home: MacBookPro 2.5Ghz quad-i7, 16Gig Mem and SSD OSX 10.9.5 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 13 2018 12:57 PM In reply to

    • dmehalik
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    • Joined on Wed, Jun 10 2015
    • Posts 20
    • Points 240

    Re: Why do Avid's transcodes rename the file AND media?... or am I doing something wrong?

    Obscure:

    It sounds like what you want to do is take a sequence that was cut in one platform and then conform it in another. Forget about what Avid is calling it's media files as this is not relevant.

    If you generate Avid OP-Atom MXF via Resolve, you can choose to create these files with names that match the source file. This is great if your source media all has unique names. It is a disaster if it doesn't, which is why Resolve also has a 'use unique file names' tickbox. Avid on the other hand, will generate a unique OP-Atom MXF file name as this is the only way to ensure that you don't end up with duplicate media file names in your MXF directory. It also allows Avid to manage potentially millions of media files efficiently in a way that is seamless to the end user. Think of it as Avid always having the 'use unique file names' tick-box checked.

    As I said earlier, the names of the OP-Atom MXF media files are not relevant. What matters is that when you generate your edit proxies (assuming a conform workflow), the software that is used to generate these proxies is creating files with metadata that can be used in the event of a conform. Most platforms will conform back to source media using Source File/Tape Name and Start Timecode. If you check your Avid or Resolve bins, this metadata will travel with your media files, regardless of the actual media file name.

    So, if you want to take a sequence that was cut in Avid from Avid generated OP-Atom MXF and then link it back to the source media in Resolve, all you need to do is export an AAF, bring it into Resolve and then use the conform tool to link back to the source media using the Source File/Tape Name and Start Timecode metadata contained in the .MXF files. You may need to manipulate a checkbox or two but it really is a cinch. There are plently of video's online that deal with this exact workflow.

    If you want to take a sequence that was cut in Avid and then move it to Premiere, the workflow is similar. All you need to do is get the Source File/Tape Name and Start Timecode metadata out of the Avid and then relink your Premiere project bcak to your source media using Premiere's 'Link Media' option. I haven't done this for a while but it is possible and not especially fiddly, although I think I may have had to use Relove to import the Avid AAF and then generate an XML for the Premiere relink.

    I hope this information helps - I've been dealing with this 'back end' stuff for years and I promise you that Avid is the boss for tracking and managing media!

    Yes, you understand perfectly what I'm trying to do.  This is incredibly helpful!... Your explanation of why Avid creates media the way it does was especially useful.  From what I can tell, the problems I've been having with my Resolve conforms stem from not ensuring that my metadata in my Avid generated clips is locked down.  I'm going to try to use the system outlined in the Creative Cow tutorial mentioned by Pierreh below.  From the tests I've done so far, Premiere still gets tripped up when I try to link masters media that doesn't match proxy media names for batch relinking.  If I were just working on a 30 second commercial, I'd just point it back to the media files it can't "see" manually... but in this case, I'm talking about hundreds of offline "new.01" clips that it just refuses to see.  Anyway, thanks for your response.  I'm going to use it moving forward to try to create a cleaner workflow.

  • Fri, Apr 13 2018 1:02 PM In reply to

    • dmehalik
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Jun 10 2015
    • Posts 20
    • Points 240

    Re: Why do Avid's transcodes rename the file AND media?... or am I doing something wrong?

    pierreh:

    Before I started a big project, I read those two articles, and it's been pretty helpful. Hope it helps you too:

    https://library.creativecow.net/freeman_scott/linkingmetadatatoessence/1

    http://www.avidblogs.com/how-to-roundtrip-davinci-resolve-to-avid-media-composer-tutorial/

    I know it's slightly different from what you're trying to do, but it's good knowledge and understanding of the behind the scene process.

    Yes, thanks so much.  I had actually found those in search for answers... but It's great to know they work for you... and also was extremely helpful to know that "LINK" is a user generated column.  I was confused by that as I didn't know if other platforms could see metadata that isn't included in their standard metadata lists, if that makes sense.  I thought if I created a column in Avid that didn't have a name that matched a column in Resolve, that it wouldn't register.  Starting to get a very tiny grasp on all of this.  Thanks for your time.

  • Fri, Apr 13 2018 1:19 PM In reply to

    • Obscure
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    • Joined on Tue, Jan 23 2018
    • Posts 22
    • Points 310

    Re: Why do Avid's transcodes rename the file AND media?... or am I doing something wrong?

    If your Premiere link tool is expecting files with '.new.01' extensions, it is likely that it is getting its 'Source File' information from the 'Name' column in Avid. It would be nice if all software used consistent metadata fields but one softwares 'Source File' is anothers 'Name!'

    I have a suggestion but please test this from a copy of your project first!

    You could try replacing the metadata in the 'Name' column of your Avid bin before you export your AAF for Premiere with the metadata that you want to use to link to your source media in Premiere. Find the Avid column that contains the metadata that you want to relink to in the Premiere (probably the 'Source Name' column) and overwrite the data in the 'Name' field with this info. The shortcut to doing this is to highlight the 'Source File' column (so the whole column's data is highlighted) and then use cmd+D, which will then allow you to paste the entire columns data into the 'Name' column.Try exporting your AAF again and see if this helps.

    Hope this is helpful.

     

     

  • Fri, Apr 13 2018 2:07 PM In reply to

    • dmehalik
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Jun 10 2015
    • Posts 20
    • Points 240

    Re: Why do Avid's transcodes rename the file AND media?... or am I doing something wrong?

    oooh!  I think maybe that's worth a try!  I'll report back!

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