Latest post Mon, Jun 4 2018 4:04 PM by JCBond. 25 replies.
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  • Fri, Apr 13 2018 7:45 PM In reply to

    • carlgmi
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Western Australia
    • Posts 754
    • Points 9,340

    Re: New Avid Title Tool DOA?

    JCBond:
    Some of the items on your list require a complete re-write of the core software.

    So get writing. The core is old and being left behind, Avid First was a chance to do that with low risk to established users from bugs. No courage to do that then so what prospect it will happen in the future? Avid is milking an old piece of code by adding what is possible while ignoring the fact it *needs rewriting*... 

    MC8.10 Win 7 64 with Dongle, Dual 10 core Xeon, Quadro K4000, Adaptec RAID 5-8x3TB, External TB2 4x3TB, 64G RAM, BM Intensity Pro 4K. NewBlue Titler 6... [view my complete system specs]

    Vote 1 - Dongles.

    UME an old engine, now with 4K, mags and furry dice....

  • Fri, Apr 13 2018 9:45 PM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Feb 26 2006
    • Maryland
    • Posts 3,220
    • Points 39,080

    Re: New Avid Title Tool DOA?

    First, I am NOT an Avid apologist.  (See my DS rants)  This is just my opinion.

    But among the biggest issues Avid has are:

    A. The fact that they are one of the first NLEs and have continually built on their original code.

    B. They have a large installed user base.

    C. They have maintained project compatibilty. (see A.)

    To change the really horrible effects structure (see my DS rants), they would most likely have to totally break item C.  And that would incur the rage of item B.

    And if you use Premiere you know really useful item C. is (What? You want to open a project from Version 2 in Version 1? Sorry ...).

    My point is that Avid is under constraints that it may never be able to break free from given the low (to NO) price of NLE software.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC 8.5.3 / 8.9.4 | OS 10.11.x - various MacPro Towers - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown" QT 10.0... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Fri, Apr 13 2018 11:14 PM In reply to

    Re: New Avid Title Tool DOA?

    jef:
    C. They have maintained project compatibility. (see A.)
    IMO solving this depends on whether the compatibility issues are  approached by a team with the 3 decade old "it is too hard" attitude or a team embracing "a how can we can do it" attitude.

    Being completely simplistic here. Design a new MC that allows co-installs (not open at the same time) with a MC versions going back a few versions (6 and forward?)  Avid policy has already partly embraced this concept by allowing PT's 12 HD owners to have PT's 10 HD so they can keep their compatibility with their existing TDM hardware and plug-ins. 

    Also write a new program that converts legacy Avid projects to new Avid project formats. This could be a project level import / open option (like the current AAF handling and bin open options but on steroids) that is, it would convert  original bins, settings, timelines, markers .... etc into the new MC Project formats. 

    With over 3000 old projects here, implementing the above would satisfy my compatibility needs. Any slight inconvenience generated would be acceptable to me given the multiple, currently unattainable, benefits that could easily result from such a rewrite.  (It has to be done sometime!!)

  • Sat, Apr 14 2018 12:49 AM In reply to

    • JCBond
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sat, Mar 11 2006
    • Van Nuys CA, USA
    • Posts 108
    • Points 1,140

    Re: New Avid Title Tool DOA?

    Apple subsidizes their software by selling their outdated hardware. Adobe subsidizes their Adobe Premier development with millions of Photoshop licenses, Blackmagic designs bought Resolve cheap and subsidizes all the software development with unrelated hardware sales.

    Where does Avid get the money to do this multi-year project of rewriting the base code from scratch when it has to give away MC-First and charges $29 per month for Media Composer?

    The only way Avid can do this is by doing it one small step at a time as they have been doing.

    System 1: Symphony Nitris DX - HP xw8600 8xCores - Windows 7 SP1 64 bit. System 2: Symphony Nitris DX - HP xw8600 8xCores - Windows 7 SP1 64 bit. System... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Apr 14 2018 2:29 AM In reply to

    Re: New Avid Title Tool DOA?

    JCBond:
    Where does Avid get the money to do this multi-year project of rewriting the base code from scratch when it has to give away MC-First and charges $29 per month for Media Composer?

    The real need for writing  new MC foundations that were not hog tied to restrictions required by 80's hardware, CPU speeds, media storage storage capacity and slow connectivity has been debated in several versions of the Avid video forums that existed before the current forum version started in 2005.  Back then Avid was still charging very good money for it's hardware and software. The Avid hardware was effectively a secondary high cost "dongle." Attempting to justify 2 decades of complete lack of foresight on current price structures seems naive.

    JCBond:
    The only way Avid can do this is by doing it one small step at a time as they have been doing.
    Yes but brought on themselves by there own policies for the last 2 decades.

     I would suggest that any time in motion study would reveal that every small step Avid has achieved will have taken them many times longer jamming it on top of 30 year old, continuously band aided, code. Starting a fresh with all the knowledge of what is needed would have been far cheaper in the long run IMO.

    FWIW in a 2003 debate on this subject in the Avid forums of the day it was suggested to me that a complete rewrite would have taken 2 years. I would not mind betting current Avid personnel wish like hell the management back then had been able to appreciate the inevitability of this need and had bitten the bullet.

  • Sat, Apr 14 2018 7:44 AM In reply to

    Re: New Avid Title Tool DOA?

    Different eyes sees things differently.

    Source Settings along with AMA import and AMA File Export are masterfully done.

    Just take a look at how MC applies transformations to match different color spaces!

    Solid playback rendering and exporting long timelines without many glitches (even with multiple FX's applied).

    Grouped by waveform, 3D LUT support, 4K and 8K edit, Insert edit! and many other imporvements over time.

    Used from almost every serious filmmaker and at the latest Oscars almost every film has been cut on MC.

    There are some things missing or needed to be updated and the work is on the process.

    Mainly for me a better titler. And while there are only few things missing Media Composer has compatibility with older

    versions! I mean if this is not genious I don't know what it is.

    I don't know from where you get all the details about Avid not having the funds to rewrite or whatever anyone thinks

    as the right thing for Avid to do but from 2005 I got here from Liquid I see HUGE improvements over time while

    maintaining compatibility with older versions (one of the mistakes for me but needed as it seems and out of respect to

    older editors I guess).

    And one thing I see is when something being implemented it works.

    Through (entirely) different eyes.

    Desktop
    Corsair RM750X/Asus P8Z68 Deluxe(Gen3)/i7 2600K@4.4/Corsair 32G DDR3/PNY Quadro P2000D(390.77)/Samsung 850 Pro SSD(OS) 256 GB/ 2x2TB WD RE4@RAID 0/LG BH16NS40/W10 Pro 64bit/Media Composer Software 2018.5 with Symphony Option/2xHP 22'' Monitors/M-Audio AV30 Speakers.

     

    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

    3 Heads Digital Films

  • Mon, Apr 16 2018 6:30 AM In reply to

    • luca.mg
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Roma - Italy
    • Posts 5,292
    • Points 62,085

    Re: New Avid Title Tool DOA?

    While I do agree that many things should have already been addressed, also in order to face new tasks, I want to believe that with the death of QuickTime a major rewrite of the software is already going on. Every update from MC 8 on has had at least one fix/feature worth updating. We've read "slow reacting", "too little, too late", and "lack of resources" many times over these forums. The thing is, IMHO, that the Company should be run with a different mind, the same as when it became BIG, while it's ran according to other criteria. Avid should go back to the roots. The new CEO could be an opportunity, or even better: could the new CEO be an opportunity? Don't know if the latter is to be considered speculation, in which case please disregard.

    Symphony 2018.5, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Mon, Apr 23 2018 3:09 AM In reply to

    • dew
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2007
    • Posts 489
    • Points 6,225

    Re: New Avid Title Tool DOA?

    Everytime I read threads like this is always the same thing. Some speaks on the lack of improvement from avid and someone trying to explain why and be patient. I think we all can agree MC is behind in a number of features. we all get the need to remain compatible to older versions but they probably should have developed a newer editor and less dependancy on 3rd party software. They could have did what adobe did with intergration of products

  • Mon, Jun 4 2018 3:54 PM In reply to

    • TVJerry
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 12
    • Points 130

    Re: New Avid Title Tool DOA?

    The primary reason I'm still on ver 7 is that I have the NewBlue animated gfx and BCC still installed. Both of those go away in ver8 without a lot of additional $. I played with Premiere last year and didn't love it, despite all of my fellow editors at most major houses in town already converting to Premiere. At this point, guess we're hamstringed...waiting and hoping.

     

  • Mon, Jun 4 2018 3:59 PM In reply to

    Re: New Avid Title Tool DOA?

    BCC 8 still runs with MC 2018.4 on my Win 7 Pro system.   I don't use NewBlue, so I can't comment on that.

    MC 2018.4 with Symphony, Matrox MX02 Mini Max, Win 7 Pro, HP Z800 2x6-Core 3.2Ghz Xeon, 48GB ram, Quadro K4200, SanDisk Extreme 240GB SSD as system drive... [view my complete system specs]

    I have a fantastic editing assistant.  He stays by my side when I edit...doesn't talk too much...and thinks I'm a genius!    Check him out here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQVkYaaPO6g

  • Mon, Jun 4 2018 4:04 PM In reply to

    • JCBond
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sat, Mar 11 2006
    • Van Nuys CA, USA
    • Posts 108
    • Points 1,140

    Re: New Avid Title Tool DOA?

    BCC and New Blu all work on the latest version of Media Composer both Mac and PC. They do need to be recent versions though.

    System 1: Symphony Nitris DX - HP xw8600 8xCores - Windows 7 SP1 64 bit. System 2: Symphony Nitris DX - HP xw8600 8xCores - Windows 7 SP1 64 bit. System... [view my complete system specs]
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