Latest post Sun, Jan 21 2018 4:43 PM by David Yardley. 11 replies.
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  • Sat, Dec 23 2017 5:06 PM

    • Dave Mann
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    Sony XAVC pixelation when AMA linking

    Hi all,

    An issue that's been plaguing me all year. When AMA linking Sony XAVC media from an FS7 or FS5, the highlights and shadows on the image have obvious pixelation and banding. If I open the media in Premiere, Da Vinci or even Catalyst Browse, these areas are crystal clear. But in Avid it looks horrible.

    I've tried multiple versions of Avid, now working with the latest version. Latest version of Nablet plug-in. Same thing. Some times it's more obvious than others, but it is there without fail.

    At first I thought it was an S-log issue (Avid interpreting it wrong), but I've tried standard picture profile media and it's the same problem.

    The only way round it is to open the media in Browse, rough grade it then render to a ProRes, and then AMA link that in Avid. ProRes always comes in clean.

    It's a real issue as I'm not able to grade any of the original media in Avid.

    Please advise if any of you are having the same issue. Cheers.

    Mac Pro 3.5 GHz 6-core Intel Xeon E5 16GB 1866 MHz DdR3 ECC AMD FirePro D500 3072MB Black Magic Ultrastudio [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Dec 24 2017 9:21 AM In reply to

    • fsm
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    Re: Sony XAVC pixelation when AMA linking

    Check your video output button in the lower timeline, set it to green 10bit. Hope that helps.

    MC 2018.5 & SYM / BM Monitor4K / Windows 10 prof. 64 bit / i7 3930k / Quadro M4000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Dec 25 2017 1:11 PM In reply to

    • Dave Mann
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    Re: Sony XAVC pixelation when AMA linking

    Hi fsm,

    Thanks for your reply. Setting to 10bit helps but the artefacting is still very much there, and is consistently visible on exported files.

    I have contacted Nablet who have abdicated responsibility, saying it's an Avid issue rather than a plug-in one.

    Mac Pro 3.5 GHz 6-core Intel Xeon E5 16GB 1866 MHz DdR3 ECC AMD FirePro D500 3072MB Black Magic Ultrastudio [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Dec 25 2017 4:26 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Sony XAVC pixelation when AMA linking

    I am currently finishing a show with UHD material from FS7 and FS55, both which were shot XAVC 10 bit, downconverted to HD in Avid.  Other than issues of linking at the folder level and clips getting confused as to which shoot they should be relinking to, I am not having the troubles you describe.

    I removed all color adapters from the clips in the time line, did a mixdown to DNx 220x and sent that off to Resolve.  No complaints yet.

    Not sure if that is helpful or not.  Avid MC 8.9.4.  OSX 10.11.4

    Jef

     

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." | OS 10.11.x - various MacPro Towers - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Mon, Jan 15 2018 12:36 AM In reply to

    • Dave Mann
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    Re: Sony XAVC pixelation when AMA linking

    Hi Jeff,

    Very interesting to hear you're not coming across the problem. I don't suppose it would be possible to send you a very small sample of the media, with an example of what I'm experiencing, and see if it flags up in Avid for you? Then I'll know it's a camera issue more than an Avid issue.

    Many thanks!

    Mac Pro 3.5 GHz 6-core Intel Xeon E5 16GB 1866 MHz DdR3 ECC AMD FirePro D500 3072MB Black Magic Ultrastudio [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jan 15 2018 2:23 AM In reply to

    • hbrock
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    Re: Sony XAVC pixelation when AMA linking

    In order to capture as much as possible in the available color space, the cameras use full range rather than 709 levels.  Also, transcoding to any non 10-bit format can add banding artifacts.

    2 suggestions:

    1. Use Catalyst Browse to determine how the material was capture: S-Log, S-Log 2, S-Log 3 and S-Gamute, CineGamute, etc.

    2. Set the discovered capture format on the top of the Color Adapter page on Source Settings.  Click on "Auto" to add the correct adjustment for the source selected.  Apply to clips as necessary.

    Bonus suggestion: make sure the old Sony AMA plug-ins are not installed on your system.

    If you want to send me a small sample to test, PM me.

     

    MacPro, MacBook Pro and a Cube (masquerading as a kleenex dispenser). [view my complete system specs]

    Must think of something clever to go here...

  • Tue, Jan 16 2018 11:21 AM In reply to

    • Dave Mann
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    Re: Sony XAVC pixelation when AMA linking

    Hello,

    Thank you so much for the offer - I've just sent you an email, please let me know if you receive it okay.

    Many thanks,

    Tim

    Mac Pro 3.5 GHz 6-core Intel Xeon E5 16GB 1866 MHz DdR3 ECC AMD FirePro D500 3072MB Black Magic Ultrastudio [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jan 20 2018 12:08 AM In reply to

    • hbrock
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    Re: Sony XAVC pixelation when AMA linking

    Tested and discovered the following when using XAVC S-Log 3/Cine-Gamut 3 source clips from a FS7 exported from the timeline as a ProRes QuickTime that exhibited banding on material with subtle shadows on a beige wall: Don’t export AMA linked material with a LUT without first rendering, transcoding or doing a video mixdown.

    10-bit media with a LUT applied looks OK on the timeline and in the monitors but appears to be limited to 8-bit conversion if the material is exported directly from a timeline without first rendering, transcoding or mixing down the source material to a 10-bit codec.  Clips look OK on the timeline and on monitors but exhibit banding if exported as a QuickTime using a 10-bit codec.
    Here's what doesn't work:
    • Applying a LUT to AMA linked material using Source Settings but not transcoding with color transform applied.
    • Applying a LUT effect to a upper track but not rendering the effect on the timeline before exportUsing a DNX185x or DNX4444+ instead of ProRes.  Diffrent export codecs don't seem to make any difference in preventing the problem.
    • Using a 8-bit codec on the Render tab in the Media Creation settings.  Best to set to 16-bit effects processing as well.
    Here's what does work:
    • Mixing down to a 10-bit codec first.Rendering to a 10-bit codec first.
    • Transcoding the source clip to a 10-bit format with the LUT applied. 
    MacPro, MacBook Pro and a Cube (masquerading as a kleenex dispenser). [view my complete system specs]

    Must think of something clever to go here...

  • Sat, Jan 20 2018 2:20 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Sony XAVC pixelation when AMA linking

    Interesting.  Our colorists have been pulling their hair out dealing with FS7 AVC material.  I am going to share this with them for comment, but I think that their tests with camera original loaded directly into Resolve still shows banding.  And there is a bit of discussion on various camera and post forums about the issue.

    And this is material where no LUT is being burned in.  Just looking at the log image in Resolve.

    So not sure exactly what you are seeing.  But I will try post back with any comments from our guys.

    Thanks,

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." | OS 10.11.x - various MacPro Towers - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Sun, Jan 21 2018 1:16 AM In reply to

    • hbrock
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    Re: Sony XAVC pixelation when AMA linking

    I think it's a limitation of the XAVC codec. Can't know for sure without comparing XAVC to something from a external recorder.

    I tested the same clip and LUT in Resolve and got basically the same result on output as what Media Composer was exporting after first rendering, transcoding and/or mixing down.  The original clip had a very slight bit of gradation "challenges" in it's SLog-3 format and those were visible in the outputs upon close inspection.  Clips expoted to ProRes QT using Sony Catalyst looked identical to both Avid and Resolve.  The QTs that were exported from Avid without some rendering, transcoding or mixing down looked like...bad cable TV.

    MacPro, MacBook Pro and a Cube (masquerading as a kleenex dispenser). [view my complete system specs]

    Must think of something clever to go here...

  • Sun, Jan 21 2018 10:41 AM In reply to

    • jakeheat
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    Re: Sony XAVC pixelation when AMA linking

    I find that for absolute best results, switch to RGB 12bit colour space before you render and export QT 4:4:4:4 or Animation codec.

    You’re never going to completely get rid of the banding and artefacts from the FS series Sony cameras, but adding a little grain may help even things out.

    Media Composer 8.10.0 New MacPro 6 core - 32 GB RAM old MacPros 3.33Ghz iMacs, Macbook Pros. BM, AJA, Matrox After Effects, etc [view my complete system specs]

    @jaketheeditor 

  • Sun, Jan 21 2018 4:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Sony XAVC pixelation when AMA linking

    Unless Avid have done something clever since 2011, all custom quicktime exports and imports (rather than AMA) to any codec are 8 bit.

    http://community.avid.com/forums/t/96816.aspx?PageIndex=4

    This would explain Howard's findings above.

     

    Symphony 7.06 OS 10.9.5 QT 7.6.3 Mac Pro 2x2.66 6-core 32GB Ram Aja Kona 3. MC 7.0.6 OS 10.9.5 Mac Pro 5.1 2x2.97 6-core 14GB ram Aja I/O express, Apple... [view my complete system specs]
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