Latest post Fri, Aug 18 2017 11:28 AM by derDoyle. 7 replies.
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  • Thu, Aug 17 2017 4:35 AM

    • Svenbox
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    • Germany
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    Moiré issues

    I have 4k footage from a Phantom 4 drone. One shot gives me extreme moiré. I tried all kind of settimgs to import it properly, not successful. Imported the same scene into FCP X - everything fine. Exported from FCP an Apple ProRes 4444 - imported into MC - same Moiré again. 

    I attached a pic, left ist MC, right is FCP X.

    Anything I can do? Thanks for any help or links to earlier discussions.


    iMac pro, MC 2018.7.1 on 10.13.4., 32 Gb, 1Tb SSD, 12 Tb G-speed ext. RAID 1, [view my complete system specs]

    Wat soll dä Quatsch?

  • Thu, Aug 17 2017 6:51 AM In reply to

    • damien78
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    Re: Moiré issues

    Is it visible on your monitoring system only? If yes, it might be caused by the Video Quality Setting set to "draft" ( green/yellow) under your timeline. Try a "full quality" (green) setting. 

    Media Composer 2018.12.1, w/Symphony/SS/PF options, MAC PRO 2013 3.5 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5, ATI FirePro D500 3072 Mo, 32 GB RAM, MacOS 10.13.6, AJA... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Aug 17 2017 6:59 AM In reply to

    • carlgmi
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    Re: Moiré issues

    Hallo Svenbox - wie gehts?!

    So we have the same problem... 4K drone vision @25p into a 50i HD project.  Is that the type of project you are bringing the vision into?

    We can create a PP or AE project and the vision is clean - same as your FCP-X description.  We found that it would only look good if the Avid HD project was set to progressive and not interlaced.  So for all projects going forward we are setting 25p as the project type.

    Also, with our production camera - if set to 50p and imported into a 50i project it looked good.  Set that camera to 25p and import into a 50i project and it looked bad.

    Not a solution perhaps but a work around.  BTW, I tried re-encoding it in Adobe Encoder, exporting out of AE, resizing in Avid using FrameFlex, adding a motion time change, nothing made a significant improvement in the result... frustrating.

    Viel gluck!

    MC8.10 Win 7 64 with Dongle, Dual 10 core Xeon, Quadro K4000, Adaptec RAID 5-8x3TB, External TB2 4x3TB, 64G RAM, BM Intensity Pro 4K. NewBlue Titler 6... [view my complete system specs]

    Vote 1 - Dongles.

    UME an old engine, now with 4K, mags and furry dice....

  • Thu, Aug 17 2017 8:20 AM In reply to

    • Svenbox
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    Re: Moiré issues

    Danke, Alles gut.

     

    Yes I have 50i HD, because it's easier to handle slow motion shots from my RED. Indeed the 25p does the job. So I created a 25p project which imports it nicely and then opened the bin in the original project - works fine. I thought I had checked that option.

     

    Great. Vielen Dank.

     

    iMac pro, MC 2018.7.1 on 10.13.4., 32 Gb, 1Tb SSD, 12 Tb G-speed ext. RAID 1, [view my complete system specs]

    Wat soll dä Quatsch?

  • Thu, Aug 17 2017 11:49 AM In reply to

    • Mike Brodeur
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    Re: Moiré issues

    Try changing the Image Interpolation field in the Render Settings from Basic (Bilinear) to Advanced (Polyphase). This has been shown to be helpful with this sort of problem.

  • Fri, Aug 18 2017 4:24 AM In reply to

    • N Ryan
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    • Melbourne, Australia
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    Re: Moiré issues

    I know it's 4K but the datarate on these is a maximum of 60 Mbps, which is very low. Hard to get a true high quality 4K image with that datarate. It's not moiré that I see on these images but fine detail flicker; the kind you would expect to see on artificially sharpened images.

    I frequently use AvidFX (Boris Red) to both sharpen these images and employ 1:2:1 de-flicker to get sharp, flicker-less images from these drones.

    Some of the newer models record uncompressed video (They went went from one extreme to the other!) You'll see a much better and cleaner result with these, and with fewer flicker issues.

    And yes, the current flicker issues show up more in an interlaced environment. But the issue is with the source.

    OS 10.11.4 Mac Pro Media Composer 8.6.3 with Symphony & Interplay 3.4 AvidFX 6.4 Neat Video 4.1.4 ISIS5500 [view my complete system specs]

     

    Neil.

  • Fri, Aug 18 2017 5:46 AM In reply to

    • carlgmi
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    Re: Moiré issues

    N Ryan:

    And yes, the current flicker issues show up more in an interlaced environment. But the issue is with the source.

     

    Whilst I agree to a point, where this argument falls down is on our production 4K camera with a 200Mbps datatrate - set to 25p, images look just like these.  Set to 50p and the probelm goes in the 50i project  That these, and the drone images look fine in an equivalent Adobe PP or AE project points, to me, at Avid not doing a good job of re-sampling.  The renders settings options "marginally" improves the image but not nearly enough to be good enough.  18 months ago we spent many hours trying combinations of settings, workflows, external encoding to get a good result - it always came back to not putting a 25p 4K clip into a 50i project.  And again, this is on a production camera not a small, low bitrate drone camera.

    So, for us - if the project has to be 50i - we set the prod camera to 50p and the results are good.  If we have no option but to take 25p 4K we keep the project in the progressive and also avoid the problem.  That you can use exactly the same settings in Adobe and not see an issue is frustrating but we'll live with it.

    Und Svenbox, zwei Woche bis ich nach Hamburg in Deutschland reisen und dann nach Amsterdam und IBC :)  Dann muss ich nur Deutsch sprechen :/

    MC8.10 Win 7 64 with Dongle, Dual 10 core Xeon, Quadro K4000, Adaptec RAID 5-8x3TB, External TB2 4x3TB, 64G RAM, BM Intensity Pro 4K. NewBlue Titler 6... [view my complete system specs]

    Vote 1 - Dongles.

    UME an old engine, now with 4K, mags and furry dice....

  • Fri, Aug 18 2017 11:28 AM In reply to

    • derDoyle
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    • Berlin, Germany
    • Posts 89
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    Re: Moiré issues

    Hi,

    DJI footage has this issue since the beginning. In p everything looks fine, in interlaced everything is messed up.

    Doesn't matter if 4K or not.

    If you have to master in 1080i50, the workaround is to downscale the footage to 720p25 and to import(!) not transcode/consolidate it to your 1080i50 project. This eliminates most of the ugly look.

    If there is not new workaround, this was the one tested and considered as good by many users.

    If you can master in progressive, work and master in progressive.

     

    Grüße,

    Doyle

    Clients: MacPro6.1 (2013 "Trashcan"), 3,5GHz 6-Core, 16GB (1866) RAM, AMD FirePro D500, 256GB SSD, macOS 10.12.2, Avid MediaComposer 8.7.2, NitrisDX... [view my complete system specs]

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