Latest post Fri, Jul 7 2017 5:39 AM by Serleejus. 21 replies.
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  • Mon, Jun 19 2017 3:35 PM

    • Serleejus
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    Help with 24fps - m2t files not linking or importing Media Composer with Symphony

    Hi. I have a few questions regarding 24fps. Real 24fps, not 23.976.

     

    Using a jvc-gyhd200 which records true 24fps, capturing with firestore dr-hd100 or fs-100. Both write the files marking them as 24fps.

    Media composer does not have a 720p/24fps unless we make a custom one with that on a new project. Am I correct with that?

    camera is set to 24fps, and one test was shutter speed at 60fps (overcranking)

     

    once I try to link the m2t files, it says something like incorrect frame rate into project. it sees the file as 23.976, which isn't the case, and it can not import the overcranked one as well.

     

    Am I missing something with the m2t files?

     

    The only way I can get it to work is by using adobe media encoder and exporting the m2t file as dnxhqmxf 10 bit (going by memory which ever the highest quality one is) and set the fps as 24fps.

     

    Doing this inflates the file size by approx 10x, and it links perfectly. But it won't link the overcranked footage.

    How do I avoid the above step? if I can not, what would be the best avid codec to recode to to keep the material as shot without losing any quality or inflating the file size too much?

    and how can I put the over cranked footage into the 24fps timeline if it wont import because of the frame rate of the project? looking for some slowmotion obviously.

     

    Thank you in advanced.

  • Mon, Jun 19 2017 5:24 PM In reply to

    Re: Help with 24fps - m2t files not linking or importing Media Composer with Symphony

    I'm not a 100% sure, but I would think the JVC is shooting 720/23.976p. They might be calling it "true 24p" as opposed to "24p-inside-a-60i-signal". Very confusing.

    But let me try to get this verified.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jun 19 2017 5:30 PM In reply to

    Re: Help with 24fps - m2t files not linking or importing Media Composer with Symphony

    It sounds like MC is being told by the files metadata that its 23.98fps. Thats how MC works out how to handle it.

    I'd check the source files in some apps like MediaInfo

    If you AMA link them into a 24fps project you can use the source setting playback rate to choise eithe the metadata indicated fps or the projects. This allows you to force 24fps even if the file is marked as 23.98

    And the test will be to see if the duration is correct or wrong under forced 24fps (film a clock with a second hand for a few minutes)

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Symphony V8.6 / 8.3.1 HP Z400 system [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


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  • Mon, Jun 19 2017 5:35 PM In reply to

    • Serleejus
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    Re: Help with 24fps - m2t files not linking or importing Media Composer with Symphony

    Pat Horridge:

    It sounds like MC is being told by the files metadata that its 23.98fps. Thats how MC works out how to handle it.

    I'd check the source files in some apps like MediaInfo

    If you AMA link them into a 24fps project you can use the source setting playback rate to choise eithe the metadata indicated fps or the projects. This allows you to force 24fps even if the file is marked as 23.98

    And the test will be to see if the duration is correct or wrong under forced 24fps (film a clock with a second hand for a few minutes)

     

    it won't let me link as it says file rate is different from project rate. Where is the setting for the source playback rate as you mentioned above? sorry for my non expertise.

     

    Thank you. I will try and find the mediainfo app.

  • Mon, Jun 19 2017 6:34 PM In reply to

    Re: Help with 24fps - m2t files not linking or importing Media Composer with Symphony

    Any chance you can upload a test file?

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jun 19 2017 7:04 PM In reply to

    Re: Help with 24fps - m2t files not linking or importing Media Composer with Symphony

    Sounds like this might be "HDV" - if so, this one of VERY rare cases where the old "import" option is the way to go.  It won't link to raw HDV unless you purchase and install third-party software.

    I agree that the footage is probably 23.976, where JVC says native 24p meaning "not a PsF signal encoded in a 59.94i stream."  Therefore, your project should be 720p23.976.  This would have to be a new project.

    Once you're in a 720p23.976 project, IMPORT the files - they should fast-import, I think.

    (SYSTEM 1) iMac Late 2012 27" (13,2), Mac OS X 10.12.5, Avid Media Composer 8.9.0 w/Symphony, Intel Core i7 3.4 GHz, 32 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jun 19 2017 7:29 PM In reply to

    • Serleejus
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
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    Re: Help with 24fps - m2t files not linking or importing Media Composer with Symphony

    HD Resolution and Frames
    • M2T or .mov filename format: YYYYMMDDHHMMSSX01.
    m2t or .mov (QT) where the X is a letter indicating
    the resolution of the captured video file. The table below lists letters
    and associated resolutions. Not all HDV camcorders support
    these resolutions.
    720p
    X Resolution
    d 720p, 23.976 fps
    b 720p, 24 fps
    c 720p, 25 fps
    a 720p, 29.97 fps
    e 720p, 30 fps
    f 720p, 50 fps*
    g 720p, 59.94 fps*
    h 720p, 60 fps*

    * These resolutions are not supported in the HD RECORDER
    QUICKTIME format. The unit will not record these resolutions
    from the GY-HD camera when in HD RECORDE


    The above is the record format on the recorder. The camera is set to 24p. The project is 24fps 1280x720 as well. The files are being recognised as 23.976 even though the letter above shows 24fps. The video files also won't even import into the project. Neither the 24fps footage or the ones overcranked. (it states frame rates do not match project.)

     

    I thought import should work regardless?

     

    I will link a couple files.

     

    Thank you!

  • Mon, Jun 19 2017 7:34 PM In reply to

    • Serleejus
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    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
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    Re: Help with 24fps - m2t files not linking or importing Media Composer with Symphony

     

    24fps file

    http://gofile.me/3DYV4/ZlY014O7A

     

    over cranked shutter at 60

    http://gofile.me/3DYV4/TYaTUPdkz

     

    Thank you!!


     

  • Mon, Jun 19 2017 7:57 PM In reply to

    • Serleejus
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    Re: Help with 24fps - m2t files not linking or importing Media Composer with Symphony

     

    This is from the JVC Brochure

     

    You can download the entire brochure here.


    http://pro.jvc.com/pro/attributes/HDTV/brochure/GY-HD200-U-121806-1.pdf

     

    5. Real 24p With ProHD, the dream of creating HD video with the essence of film has at last been realized. By capturing and recording at the film frame rate of 24fps, and offering extensive user configurable settings such as exposure, gamma and detail, ProHD becomes an important tool for creative expression. For the ultimate form of display on the cinema screen, 24 frame progressive recordings can be readily transferred to 16 mm or 35 mm film. The optional HZ-CA13U Film Lens Adapter further empowers digital filmmakers by enabling the use of 16mm film lenses with a PL mount.

  • Tue, Jun 20 2017 7:23 AM In reply to

    Re: Help with 24fps - m2t files not linking or importing Media Composer with Symphony

    Thanks. And which version of MC are you on?

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jun 20 2017 8:31 AM In reply to

    Re: Help with 24fps - m2t files not linking or importing Media Composer with Symphony

    Interesting the 24fps file shows in VLC as:

     

    Resolution 1280x736

    Display resolution 1280x720 (VLC in 1:1 zoom)

    Frame rate 59.94.0059

    4:2:0 YUV

     

    And this is what MediaInfo gives:

    Video

    ID : 4096 (0x1000)
    Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
    Format : MPEG Video
    Commercial name : HDV 720p
    Format version : Version 2
    Format profile : Main@High 1440
    Format settings, BVOP : Yes
    Format settings, Matrix : Custom
    Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=6
    Codec ID : 2
    Duration : 19 s 887 ms
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 15.8 Mb/s
    Maximum bit rate : 18.3 Mb/s
    Width : 1 280 pixels
    Height : 720 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Progressive
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.285
    Stream size : 37.4 MiB (91%)

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Symphony V8.6 / 8.3.1 HP Z400 system [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


    Media Composer V8.2 Review Background Render

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  • Tue, Jun 20 2017 8:52 AM In reply to

    Re: Help with 24fps - m2t files not linking or importing Media Composer with Symphony

    Ok MC V8.8.0

    Can't AMA link (HDV content) MC suggests import but to import the project rate must match the clip metadata rate.

    So create a 720 23.98P Project and import the "24fps" clip. Imports as a fast import.

    Then create a 720 59.94P Project and uimport the "60P" clip. Imports as fast import.

    Go back to 23.98 project and use open bin to access clip from 59.94 project. Clip will play at "normal" speed as it will be motion adapted down to 23.98.

    To get slow mo use source settings on the slowmo clip. On the PlayBack rates tab change from Clips fps (59.94) to Project FPS (23.98) You will now get slowmo playback.

    These are HDV clips so the fast import will leave you with HDV media. MC shows the video as 720p/23.976 and 720p/60

    So not quite sure whats really going on. The only way to tell is to actually film a known duration or a running stop watch and check the eventual playback is correct.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Symphony V8.6 / 8.3.1 HP Z400 system [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


    Media Composer V8.2 Review Background Render

    -

    Follow me on Twitter Pat_H_VET

  • Tue, Jun 20 2017 9:05 AM In reply to

    Re: Help with 24fps - m2t files not linking or importing Media Composer with Symphony

    Pat Horridge:
    Frame rate : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
    This suggests to me that the recorder has stored the clip as 23.976-inside-59.94.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jun 20 2017 9:14 AM In reply to

    Re: Help with 24fps - m2t files not linking or importing Media Composer with Symphony

    I'd agree.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Symphony V8.6 / 8.3.1 HP Z400 system [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


    Media Composer V8.2 Review Background Render

    -

    Follow me on Twitter Pat_H_VET

  • Tue, Jun 20 2017 1:40 PM In reply to

    • Serleejus
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 364
    • Points 4,705

    Re: Help with 24fps - m2t files not linking or importing Media Composer with Symphony

    I'm on version 8.8.4 w/symphony.

     

    Job ter Burg:

    Pat Horridge:
    Frame rate : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
    This suggests to me that the recorder has stored the clip as 23.976-inside-59.94.

    curious regarding this - the editing apps as well as adobe media encoder will read those clips as 23.98 for the ones that are supposed to be that, and the 59.94 is read as it should.

    media info says all clips regardless are as you stated. 59.94 and that was what is confusing. Is there any reason it has done such and are there any draw backs?

     

    Thank you again for your help.

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