Latest post Sat, Mar 31 2018 4:35 PM by jef. 26 replies.
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  • Fri, Mar 30 2018 5:30 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple ProRes

    I seriously doubt the time difference will be as you suggest. Why would the mixdown take longer than the export?

    The big difference is that the Video Mixdown is actually a transcode (using multiple cores if available), and that Same As Source then only copies this data into a QT container.

    So the first pass may very well be faster than a Custom export to ProRes, the seconds only takes as long as a file copy takes.

    The biggest plus is that you bypass the QT ProRes codec and the (old and slow) QT encoding engine, but rather have MC handle the ProRes transcode. QT Same As Source then is as fast as source and destination drives (and connections) allow.

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  • Fri, Mar 30 2018 5:31 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple ProRes

    I don’t like using QT engine for export since it’s slow and much more susceptible to the gamma shift issue. 

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  • Fri, Mar 30 2018 5:35 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple ProRes

    If you have multiple codecs in your sequence, then what do you expect a "Same as Source" QuickTime to be?

    Either you mixdown to a single resolution and export Same as Source, or you force the Custom Export to a specific codec.

    Either way, you're converting some of your footage to another type in order to get a single-codec QuickTime movie.

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  • Fri, Mar 30 2018 5:44 PM In reply to

    • NErez
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    Re: Apple ProRes

    Kevin,

    Exactly for that reason I figured out years ago that "Same as Source" is the codec and quality of the first shot in the sequence. I placed one frame of ProRes 422HQ at the beginning of the sequence, before the area I wanted to export, did "Same as Source" and bypassed all the 32-bit slow processing and exported a a two hour sequence in under 30 minutes.

    I'll test your method as well and time it and report the results here.

  • Fri, Mar 30 2018 5:58 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple ProRes

    In my experience it takes the first shot or the least compressed native codec. A sequence that is all DNxHD36 with one DNxHD175x Title in the middle, will be transcodes to DNxHD175x.

    I do agree that the method you describe bypasses the copy-step. 

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  • Fri, Mar 30 2018 6:06 PM In reply to

    • NErez
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    Re: Apple ProRes

    I tested the codec/export issue yesterday and can confirm that it does indeed take the first shot in the sequence as the "Same as Source" codec and resolution. Without a doubt.

  • Fri, Mar 30 2018 6:20 PM In reply to

    • tpowell
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    Re: Apple ProRes

    I thought the same thing about the "double" export years ago when I first started doing it. I do a lot of 1-hour shows with mixed ProRes and DNx files. In my exprience, it is faster to do a video mixdown of the entire program to ProRes, cut it onto a new video track, then export same as source, than it is to simply export to ProRes Quicktime. Since Quicktime ProRes is my delivery format, and I have had the gamma shift issues with direct export to Quicktime ProRes, I find this solution works and it is not too cumbersome. The only thing I don't like about it is that it creates a mixdown file, which uses more space. Typically, after I output, I simply delete the mixdown file and the mixdown track. You end up the same as if you did a direct export to ProRes (with the conversion), and for me it seems like it doesn't take as long. I haven't timed it tthough, as it solves the quicktime gamma problem, so the minutes and seconds one way or the other don't mean much.

  • Fri, Mar 30 2018 6:41 PM In reply to

    • NErez
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    Re: Apple ProRes

    To bypass the mixdown stage the first shot in your seqeunce must be of the target codec and quality you want your resulting file to be, plus the video coded in the Render tab in the Media Creation needs to be set to the desired codec (in your case, and mine, ProRes).

    An issue encountered just now: Exporting "Same as Source", Codec in Render tab set to ProRes, export process pops up a window saying the export will follow the codec in the Render tab (ProRes HQ) as there's no media in the sequence "supported for Same as Source QuickTime export". The resulting file still exports in DNxHD instead of ProRes.

    This shouldn't be so complicated.?.

  • Fri, Mar 30 2018 6:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple ProRes

    NErez:

    I tested the codec/export issue yesterday and can confirm that it does indeed take the first shot in the sequence as the "Same as Source" codec and resolution. Without a doubt.

    I tested this week as well. DNxHD36 sequence with one DNxHD115 element halfway throiugh, and same as source ends up as DNx115.

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  • Fri, Mar 30 2018 6:58 PM In reply to

    • NErez
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    Re: Apple ProRes

    What is the codec and quality in your Render tab?

    I'm getting something else, but maybe because my sequence is almost entirely DNxHD 36 and the first shot I put in is ProRes 422HQ, which is the codec I'm getting when exporting "Same as Source" with also ProRes set in the Render tab.

    Try it with a ProRes HQ shot at the head of the sequence, with ProRes HQ in the Render tab.

  • Fri, Mar 30 2018 7:04 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple ProRes

    NErez:

    What is the codec and quality in your Render tab?

     

    DNx36.

     

    Obviously, APR422HQ is a higher codec, so that would be consistent with my experience.

     

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  • Sat, Mar 31 2018 4:35 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Apple ProRes

    NErez:

    That's asking Avid users to effectively export their sequence twice. Once as a mixdown, second as a ProRes file. Am I the only one seeing a problem with that?

    My sequence is 125 minutes long, what you're suggesting takes two hours of processing, when my method takes 28 minutes.

    Yes, but ...

    What does Same As Source mean?  Exactly what it says.

    If you you have a sequence with multiple codecs then your same as source export will have multiple codecs inside with the the first codec providing the stamp for the resulting file.  Not a good thing.  I say this because DaVinci Resolve will freak out and show media offline when files are made like this that contain codecs it can not handle.

    One way to have a single codec Same As Source export is to mix down the sequence to the desired codec, place that on the top, subsequence that layer and all audio and then SAS the sequence.

    Think about it. If you have multiple codecs in your sequence and you want only one in your output Avid HAS to do a mixdown at some point.

    Now there are certain situations where you can cut out the middleman (so to speak) by doing an AMA File Export (if that supports the format you want).  This does a mixdown and output all in one step.  Check that out.

    Jef

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