Latest post Wed, Dec 17 2014 4:28 PM by smrpix. 12 replies.
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  • Fri, Dec 12 2014 5:10 PM

    • Pulck
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    Importing NTSC DVD into PAL project - best method?

    I'm editing a PAL project (1080/25P) on MC v7 and using some clips ripped from commercial DVDs (NTSC 29.97fps).

    This is the workflow I assumed would be best:

    1. Rip and transcode NTSC DVDs using Mpegstreamclip to Quicktimes using a high quality SD codec. (I used Avid 1:1. I did not de-interlace the clips, nor scale them in any way);

    2. In Avid, use console command 'ignoreqtrate true';

    3. Import clips.

    Obviously this throws the audio out of sync, but I'm assuming I can solve that by stretching the audio slightly.

    However, I'm also getting some obvious visual 'tearing' from the interlacing. De-interlacing in Mpegstreamclip doesn't look very pretty either.

    Is there a better quality way of importing DVDs from a different frame rate?

    In fact, is there better way of importing DVDs even from the same frame rate?

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  • Fri, Dec 12 2014 9:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Importing NTSC DVD into PAL project - best method?

    I've always felt the fastest and cleanest way was to play the DVD and capture it. I got myself a DVD-player with an SDI output for that. Have to capture in a project that matches the format of the DVD. After that, you can use Mix&Match. 

    When you say you want to use IgnoreQTRate, and stretch the audio a little, that would be stretching the audio quite a bit. I'd go for Mix&Match and try a Blended Interpolated conversion. Unless the source is 23.976p inside a 29.97i stream. In that case I would first do a pulldown removal, change the speed to 24.000fps, then to 25.000fps.

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  • Fri, Dec 12 2014 9:58 PM In reply to

    • jwrl
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    Re: Importing NTSC DVD into PAL project - best method?

    If you're prepared to get your hands dirty with the command processor (the DOS window) the following works reliably.

    1.  Open your DVD in Explorer and VTS_01navigate into the VIDEO_TS folder.

    In there you will find a series of files of the form VTS_01_0.VOB, VTS_01_1.VOB and so on.  Any files that begin with VTS_01 belong together, any that begin with VTS_02 belong together, up to as many titles as you have on the DVD.

    2.  Launch the command processor.  If you don't know how to do this, stop now.
    3.  Type copy /b D:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.VOB+D:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.VOB C:\tmp\Title_1.mpg.  Press Enter.
    4.  Use either AMA to link or Sorenson Squeeze to convert the MPG media into an Avid-friendly format for import.

    Now a breakdown of what that does: the "magic" happens with the copy process.  The copy /b command does what is known as a binary copy.  Without going into details, this means that the data in the .VOB files will be joined up seamlessly.  During the copy process the file is renamed from .VOB to .MPG.  Since a VOB file is a special case MPEG 2 file this is perfectly legal.

    The D: referred to assumes that your DVD or BluRay drive is drive D:.  If it isn't, replace the D with the correct drive letter.  Secondly, the C:\tmp part is an example only.  Choose an appropriate drive and folder to copy to.  Just be aware that if you have spaces in the folder or filename you will need to surround it with quotes.  Instead of C:\tmp\Title_1.mpg you would need to type "C:\Temporary folder\Title 1.mpg".

    I know that none of that directly addresses your frame rate or interlace problems.  If you go down the Squeeze path you can deinterlace on conversion.  Import the ripped media into a native NTSC project, and from there open them in your PAL project.  The workflow is then as Job suggests.

    Job ter Burg:
    I'd go for Mix&Match and try a Blended Interpolated conversion. Unless the source is 23.976p inside a 29.97i stream. In that case I would first do a pulldown removal, change the speed to 24.000fps, then to 25.000fps.

    MC 7.0.4 - Asus P6T Deluxe V2 mobo - Intel i7 920 2.66GHz - Windows 7 Ult64 SP1 - nVidia Quadro FX 1800 - 16 Gbyte low latency DDR3 RAM - Internal 8 Tb... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Dec 13 2014 9:13 PM In reply to

    • Pulck
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    Re: Importing NTSC DVD into PAL project - best method?

    Thanks for all the suggestions.

    I don't have access to a DVD player with SDI output, so I'm probably going to try the command line method. Very intrigued to see how it will turn out.

    What is the best codec to use for when I produce a QuickTime file? Is Avid DV sufficient for a SD DVD?

    And I'm never quite sure whether I should be de-interlacing before I import into MC (Mpeg Streamclip seems to produce mixed results) or letting MC deal with the interlaced fields.

  • Sat, Dec 13 2014 10:08 PM In reply to

    Re: Importing NTSC DVD into PAL project - best method?

    A player with component outputs (and I/O hardware with component inputs) would also work pretty nicely. Just saying.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Dec 13 2014 11:11 PM In reply to

    • jwrl
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    Re: Importing NTSC DVD into PAL project - best method?

    Pros of Job's suggestion (and it's a big one): you will get only what you want and nothing else.  It's also a great deal simpler.  Of course, if you have no capture hardware that's an academic argument.

    With my suggestion you will need to bring in the full title(s), although if you use the Squeeze intermediate workflow you can specify start and end points of the conversion.  Alternatively, with AMA access you can create an edit containing the sections that you need and transcode that edit to produce Avid native media of just the section(s) that you need.

    To simplify the command line process, first type D: and press Enter, then cd \VIDEO_TS and press Enter again.  The copy command then becomes copy /b VTS_01_0.VOB+VTS_01_1.VOB+VTS_01_2.VOB C:\tmp\Title_1.mpg, which is a lot simpler.

    MC 7.0.4 - Asus P6T Deluxe V2 mobo - Intel i7 920 2.66GHz - Windows 7 Ult64 SP1 - nVidia Quadro FX 1800 - 16 Gbyte low latency DDR3 RAM - Internal 8 Tb... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Dec 15 2014 11:15 AM In reply to

    • Pulck
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    Re: Importing NTSC DVD into PAL project - best method?

    Thanks for your help. Since I only have access to a DVD player with composite/HDMI output, I tried to command line method. It works well. However, I still have the issue of frame rate conversion and interlacing.

    As far as interlacing is concerned, importing things via AMA seems to do a much better job than old-fashioned import does. However, I assume the best results would come from de-interlacing in software first. Unfortunately, Mpegsteamclip seems to make a poor job of this and I don't have access to Squeeze.

    So it looks like the best I can do with what I have available is to AMA link the NTSC clip and then get Avid to deal with both the interlacing and the frame rate conversion.

  • Mon, Dec 15 2014 10:06 PM In reply to

    • jwrl
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    Re: Importing NTSC DVD into PAL project - best method?

    Glad to be able to help.

    If you AMA link the media in an NTSC project you can de-interlace using Avid's Fluid Film effect.  Usually an adaptive blended interpolated conversion gives good results.  In the effects dialog choose "Blended Interpolated", then check the "Adaptive" box.

    For really serious de-interlacing you could use the "Fluid Film" setting but the render will be slow, and you may get unexpected artifacts.

    However you do it, mix the de-interlaced video down and import the mixdown into your PAL project.  Avid will take care of the rest.

    MC 7.0.4 - Asus P6T Deluxe V2 mobo - Intel i7 920 2.66GHz - Windows 7 Ult64 SP1 - nVidia Quadro FX 1800 - 16 Gbyte low latency DDR3 RAM - Internal 8 Tb... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Dec 16 2014 11:13 AM In reply to

    • Pulck
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    Re: Importing NTSC DVD into PAL project - best method?

    Thanks. I'll try this out.

    Given that importing DVDs must be quite a common task, it's strange that MC doesn't make the process any easier. Even being able to AMA link VOB files would make life a lot easier.

    Burning DVDs from the timeline is similarly painful.

  • Tue, Dec 16 2014 5:53 PM In reply to

    • Pulck
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    Re: Importing NTSC DVD into PAL project - best method?

    Just to update on this:

    After trying out various things, I realised that Mpeg Streamclip was making a bad job of transcoding VOB files. I don't know why, but I found stray artefacts that weren't on the original DVDs.

    I switched to Super instead and found the quality much better. Only problem is that Super doesn't export Avid codecs, so I had to go with Animation (which produces massive files, albeit lossless). I also found that de-interlacing in Super before AMA-linking in Avid produced better results.

    Lastly, I followed your advice and AMA linked and transcoded inside an NTSC 29.97 project before copying the clips into my PAL project. Results are not bad.

  • Tue, Dec 16 2014 6:15 PM In reply to

    • smrpix
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    Re: Importing NTSC DVD into PAL project - best method?

    Super, which I would not recommend to anyone because of how badly it screwed up computers in the past (newer versions may or may not be better,) is a GUI for ffmpeg, so is perfectly capable of direct output to DNxHD quicktime files as well as DV.

  • Wed, Dec 17 2014 3:38 PM In reply to

    • Pulck
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    Re: Importing NTSC DVD into PAL project - best method?

    I don't see an option in Super for DNxHD. It doesn't come up in the list of output video codecs when I select MOV as a container.

    Is there something I need to do to enable it?

  • Wed, Dec 17 2014 4:28 PM In reply to

    • smrpix
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    Re: Importing NTSC DVD into PAL project - best method?

    Pulck:

    I don't see an option in Super for DNxHD. It doesn't come up in the list of output video codecs when I select MOV as a container.

    Is there something I need to do to enable it?

    Another reason not to use Super -- it not only loads your system up with crap, it doesn't allow you full access to the functionality of the (decent) tools it forces you to load.

    Super's main encoding engine is ffmpeg.  A simple ffmpeg command like:

    -i input.file -vcodec dnxhd -b:v 145M -acodec pcm_s16le -o encoded.mov

    is all you need.  You have the capability, Super is hiding it from you.  Looking through Super's website I see no way to make this simple customization.

    I use (and would recommend) WinFF as a smaller, better ffmpeg GUI.  You will need to create a custom preset such as:

    -vcodec dnxhd -b:v 145M -acodec pcm_s16le

    -- but it's easy and obvious.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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