Latest post Mon, Apr 3 2017 3:42 PM by Marianna. 269 replies.
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  • Mon, Feb 29 2016 6:49 AM In reply to

    Re: Deal breaker: no PhraseFind or ScriptSync in v8.0??

    @Scott: But...how? The feature is not available to MC users anymore, not even at 5K.

     

    Nexidia's Dialogue Search is a different product than PhF and SS, and it has quite a different value proposition.

     

    As for trying to get in touch with Nexidia, a while ago there was a letter to both Avid and Nexidia from a bunch of editors, which was supported by a letter of the board of American Cinema Editors. 

     

    Like I wrote before: if it takes parties this long to negotiate, it tells you how important reaching an agreement actually is to them.

     

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Feb 29 2016 7:10 AM In reply to

    • smyers63
    • Top 25 Contributor
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    • Dallas, Texas
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    Re: Deal breaker: no PhraseFind or ScriptSync in v8.0??

    I'll assume you're right, Job, that Dialogue Search doesn't work with MC (as I don't know one way or the other - I only responded to Jef's post about it). So assuming that's right and there is no current Phrase Find or Script Sync product from what I saw from Nexidia, where does that leave things? Use an older version of MC to use either of those products and use later versions of MC for anything else they have that the user requires. 

    So, I still don't see the "dealbreaker" or roadblock to using PF or SS.

    I do agree that until negotiations are over that both companies are trying to work out an agreement, whatever that might be and I know that even simple deals can take months and years. This isn't a simple deal. 

    Sys. 1: Sony VAIO VPCF13UFX/B, Intel Core i7-740QM (1.73GHz), 4GB RAM, Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit), Nvidia Geforce 310M, MC 8.7 Sys. 2: Acer Aspire... [view my complete system specs]

    Scott

  • Mon, Feb 29 2016 7:16 AM In reply to

    • smyers63
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    Re: Deal breaker: no PhraseFind or ScriptSync in v8.0??

    smyers63:

    I'll assume you're right, Job, that Dialogue Search doesn't work with MC (as I don't know one way or the other - I only responded to Jef's post about it). 

    It took me less than 5 minutes to find out that Dialogue Search does work with MC.  Quoting from the system requirements:

    "Supported NLE
    Export
    Integration
    The following table lists the supported non-linear editors.
    NLE Version Operating
    System
    Export Variant
    Adobe Premiere
    Pro
    CS 5.5, CS 6,
    CC
    Windows, Mac
    OSX
    Final Cut Pro XML
    (XMEML or FCPXML)
    Apple Final Cut
    Pro
    7, 10.1 Mac OSX Final Cut Pro XML
    (XMEML or FCPXML)
    Avid Media
    Composer
    6.5, 7 Windows, Mac
    OSX
    AAF"

     

    Next? Smile

    Sys. 1: Sony VAIO VPCF13UFX/B, Intel Core i7-740QM (1.73GHz), 4GB RAM, Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit), Nvidia Geforce 310M, MC 8.7 Sys. 2: Acer Aspire... [view my complete system specs]

    Scott

  • Mon, Feb 29 2016 7:18 AM In reply to

    Re: Deal breaker: no PhraseFind or ScriptSync in v8.0??

    You don't see how it would break any deal but those of us who paid money for ScriptSync when it became a paid add-on, with no improvements whatsoever compared to the version that used to be included up to that point, under the specific promise that this was a v1 and that a roadmap for development was in place have some solid ground to feel screwed.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Feb 29 2016 7:23 AM In reply to

    Re: Deal breaker: no PhraseFind or ScriptSync in v8.0??

    smyers63:
    Dialogue Search doesn't work with MC
    I did not write that. PhraseFind isn't. Not the same thing. And ScriptSync isn't -- and there is no alternative in sight.

    smyers63:
    Next?

    Dialogue Search is a different product offering than PhraseFind. It is geared towards large enterprises with lots hours (as in the 50K to 100K hours) and is optimized using a different approach to indexing to maintain search results in less than a couple seconds. While Nexidia might have offered their own product for the Avid Media Composer client, Avid simply has no API for direct integration into the editor for them to do so. Unlike some other NLE's, I might add.

     

    But I'm glad for you that you don't see it as a big problem at all.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Feb 29 2016 7:43 AM In reply to

    • smyers63
    • Top 25 Contributor
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    Re: Deal breaker: no PhraseFind or ScriptSync in v8.0??

    The subject of this very old thread (started in 2014) is "Deal breaker" and people are still posting about it being a deal breaker.  How?  Use MC7 or eariler with PP or SS and use MC8 for other things you need MC8 for (as I said before and as I'm sure all the folks saying "Deal Breaker" for the last 2 years could have been doing all this time.)

    I didn't put words in your mouth, Job.  You were simply not clear.

    You have put words in my mouth.  I do not find the topic "amusing." I just don't see how this can still be a "deal breaker" 2 years later.  If there was a broken deal, it was then and I can't say I agree it was Avid's fault (addressed below).  By people claiming "deal breaker" it gives the clear implication to me that they are implying they can no longer use MC at all because those features can no longer be used but those are both false implications (see the first paragraph of this post and one or more of my earlier posts to see how).

    I've never said that no one should push for PP or SS to be available again.  I do say that I cannot see it as a "deal breaker" in the sense that it means "I can't use MC anymore or won't pay for updates because Avid lost its deal with Nexidia and is still trying to get a deal in place again."

    I think you're blaming the wrong party for the situation.  I've just written Nexidia myself for information on the subject.

    Peace.

    Sys. 1: Sony VAIO VPCF13UFX/B, Intel Core i7-740QM (1.73GHz), 4GB RAM, Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit), Nvidia Geforce 310M, MC 8.7 Sys. 2: Acer Aspire... [view my complete system specs]

    Scott

  • Mon, Feb 29 2016 9:03 AM In reply to

    Re: Deal breaker: no PhraseFind or ScriptSync in v8.0??

    smyers63:
    I didn't put words in your mouth, Job.  You were simply not clear.
    I wasn't suggesting you were, and I'm sorry I was unclear about Dialogue Search versus PhraseFind. Just to clarify: Dialogue Search requires a Windows server and integrates with MAM systems, so in the case of Media Composer, add Interplay and its ISIS requirements to the overall co$t. Plus: it doesn't integrate into the MC client like PhraseFind did.

    smyers63:
    You have put words in my mouth.  I do not find the topic "amusing."
    My apologies, I did not intend to, it was in response to the smiley you used. But in fact, I had already removed the word 'amusing' from my response before I read your latest reply, as I had already felt it was not appropriate of me.

    smyers63:
    I just don't see how this can still be a "deal breaker" 2 years later.
    Well, v7 will take us only so far, of course. We can't ScriptSync 2K clips, for instance. Sure, there are workarounds. For now.

    But this doesn't address the fact that Avid sold ScriptSync as a v1 with explicit promises of future development. That future development never came, and the feature was even killed. And mind you, the development that most of us have been asking for did not even rely on Nexidia or its technology. Script-based Editing is Avid's part of the feature, and that still, even without Nexidia's indexing technology, suffers from age old limitations. Again, I fully understand that Avid needs to prioritize features in order to divide their R&D resources, but Avid not addressing any of these matters does tell me how unimportant this particular feature is to Avid.

    smyers63:
    By people claiming "deal breaker" it gives the clear implication to me that they are implying they can no longer use MC at all
    I interpret the original topic title as folks not wanting to upgrade to v8 because of these features being killed. And please do take into account that this coincided with the implementation of the mandatory annual support plan for perpetual licenses. So folks felt stuck between a rock and a hard place. The fact that this thread is old is no reason to argue that these users are crying wolf. If anything, it shows how badly these users are still affected by this mess.

    smyers63:
    I think you're blaming the wrong party for the situation. 
    I'm fairly sure I have been blaming both parties, as I feel both have a responsibility to MC owners. That said, Avid has been the company selling me these tools, so first and foremost, I complain to them. I'm not so sure why you think Avid needs to be defended in this matter.

    But rest assured I (and others) have been addressing the issue with Nexidia as well.

     

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Feb 29 2016 2:33 PM In reply to

    Re: Deal breaker: no PhraseFind or ScriptSync in v8.0??

    smyers63 said:

    "The following table lists the supported non-linear editors.
    Avid Media Composer 6.5, 7"

    Well, even SS & PF work with MC v6.5 and 7.0 ... what about v8.x?

     

    Next? Confused

    Symphony 8.8.x w/Avid Nitris DX, HP z420, Windows 10, QT v7.7.x, Hexa Core 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM, nVidia Quadro Series 2000 w/353.82. 2TB Boot, 2 x 3TB internal... [view my complete system specs]

    "There are few technological barriers.  You can fix almost anything if you throw enough money at it."
    *******************************
    Randall L. Rike, ACI, ACSR Mac*Win*Unity*ISIS*DS
    Systems Engineer @ BET Networks [a Viacom company]
    (wwld)

  • Mon, Feb 29 2016 4:47 PM In reply to

    • Arthur Klein
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    Re: Deal breaker: no PhraseFind or ScriptSync in v8.0??

    Hey everyone - this thread is the only way to keep the subject of a possibility to get back Phrase Find ALIVE

    ... I am working on multiple year project and I would like to keep this alive here till it happens...

    I NEED WHAT WE HAD IF AT ALL POSSIBLE - PERIOD!

    My project is at least 3-4 years away from release so i have time.

    IF THERE IS ANY CHANCE IN HELL TO GET DEAL - HERE IS ONLY PLACE TO CREATE HEAT. 

    please DON'T COMMENT UNLESS IT IS WITH GOAL OF KEEPING FIGHT ALIVE... no need for negativity - PLEASE!

    Thank you Louis and Marianna for not giving up YET!

    THATS IT

    in Gratitude,

    A

     

     

    Filed under: ,
  • Mon, Feb 29 2016 4:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Deal breaker: no PhraseFind or ScriptSync in v8.0??

    Arthur,

    We're all on the same side here, wanting the same thing.  I really wish you could see that.  Your complaints about other posters are actually adding to the sense of conflict.

    Michael

    MacPro 2 x 2.4 GHz Quad-Core Xeon (mid 2010), OSX 10.9.2 MC 7.04, Kona LHi [view my complete system specs]

    Michael Rothenberg

  • Mon, Feb 29 2016 5:45 PM In reply to

    • DStone
    • Top 50 Contributor
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    • Moderator: Media Composer Getting Started

    Re: Deal breaker: no PhraseFind or ScriptSync in v8.0??

    I'm going to go back to an earlier portion of this thread and summarize:

    Phrasefind and Scriptsync are two paid add-ons that were available in earlier versions of MC but are not included with V8 (either from 3rd party licensing issues or otherwise). Users purchased these add-ons with the understanding (either implicit or explicit) that they would be available for future versions of MC.

    There have been a number of updates to MC since the time these were supported. In order to maintain licenses, the users have had to pay for renewals and upgrades. However, the users have not been told that Phrasefind or Scriptsync are EOL or would not be included. In fact, there users are being told that the licenses are being negotiated (at least after a fact).

    In short, if you purchased either add-on and are dependent on it, then you have had to pay renewal and upgrade fees for a product you can't upgrade in the hope (sustained by Avid product management) that these features will again be available even though there hasn't been a clear statement of commitment to that end; only a vague "we're working on it."

    One thing we don't know is how many users are in this predicament, or whether the number of MC licenses involved is enough to warrant a lot of action. If there are only a few licenses involved, then the users of Pharsefind and Scriptsync might be out of luck. In which cases, stringing them along is a poor business case. If there are a lot of licenses involved, but no chance of renegotiating the 3rd party contracts (whether from an economic standpoint or something else), then there are a lot of users out of luck, and that's still a poor business case.

    Clear communication is what's required. Given the length of time involved, at this point what's needed from Avid is nothing more nor less than a statement; either they're going to commit to having these add-ons, or not. And in the case of commiting to the products, a timetable for when. No vague responses.

    DIY quad core I7-4790K, 32Gb, NVidia GTX 970 4GB, Win 10 Pro, MC(generally the latest or the one just before), MC 7.x [view my complete system specs]

    Dave S.

  • Mon, Feb 29 2016 5:56 PM In reply to

    Re: Deal breaker: no PhraseFind or ScriptSync in v8.0??

    Slow clap...

    MacPro 2 x 2.4 GHz Quad-Core Xeon (mid 2010), OSX 10.9.2 MC 7.04, Kona LHi [view my complete system specs]

    Michael Rothenberg

  • Mon, Feb 29 2016 6:29 PM In reply to

    • mikela
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    Re: Deal breaker: no PhraseFind or ScriptSync in v8.0??

    DStone:

    In short, if you purchased either add-on and are dependent on it, then you have had to pay renewal and upgrade fees for a product you can't upgrade in the hope (sustained by Avid product management) that these features will again be available even though there hasn't been a clear statement of commitment to that end; only a vague "we're working on it."

    Amen.

    I have 5 assistant / story editor systems that prep content for another 14 edit stations. All of these system are paying the annual support contract fees, despite being 'left behind' at version 6.5.4. In short, I've paid to keep my dongles up to date, without actually taking advantage of newer software updates. Why? Because script sync is 100% critical to our workflow, and I don't like the idea of running different MC version on the same show. I'm sure I'm not the only avid tech that needs one.

    Avid seems to have forced us into a mandatory support contract with the threat of never being able to update our dongles at a later date. They don't sell updates any more. I wouldnt have a problem with this IF I was actually taking advantage of the new updates, however for the show that depends on ScriptSync, I feel strong armed into paying for something I can't use.

  • Tue, Mar 1 2016 5:13 AM In reply to

    • TVJohn
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    Re: Deal breaker: no PhraseFind or ScriptSync in v8.0??

    Witness the HDV problem.

    Dell Display U2713HM(2560x1440), AMD FX8350 8core, AMD 990FX mobo, 32gig-DDR3-1600, Quadro K620/GTX260/core 216, Audigy2zs, 1TB SSD system drive, 2TB SATA... [view my complete system specs]

    Using MC 8.4. Avid FX6.4, Vegas Pro 15/ DVD Architect 6pro, DVDit6.4proHD, CCE Basic, TmpGe Express4, TmpGe Authoring Works 4, DVDLab-Studio. Sony EX-1R, Canon XH-A1, GL2, GL1, Canon EOS 60D

  • Tue, Mar 1 2016 5:22 AM In reply to

    • nuclearpicnic
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    Re: Deal breaker: no PhraseFind or ScriptSync in v8.0??

    Well, it's official, I'm going on to a job that is using PREMIERE instead of Media Composer specifically because of the script Sync issue.  This is how Avid will die... Premiere here I come (for this project).

    Mac Pro 2009 Quad Core, Media Composer 8.7 AJA IoExpress, Avid Artist Mix, Sonnet PCI Express 2-Port eSATA, 32Gb Ram, HP displays, keyspan. Drobo S for... [view my complete system specs]
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