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  • Sun, Jan 27 2013 8:12 PM

    UpRez Workflow for Sequences

    Hello to the forum,

    I am working with MC 6.5 and Boris BCC 8. I am editing a video for delivery in PAL-HD using a lot of stock material shot in SD. I have made some tests and want to do the SD-HD with BCC Uprez. I am now wondering about the best way to do this. I want to use some transitions between the clips like swish pans, TV noise, lens-flares and so on. If I edit in SD and then export the timeline as QT Ref, then re-import (no resize) and uprez it, there are no more edits and no handle length for applying transitions. If I do the transitions in the SD timeline I have the suspicion that I am losing image quality. I have thought about editing in SD, then decomposing with handling length and then export, re-import, uprez the sequence. I can then do the transitions in the HD timeline. Does that make sense? Does it make a difference? Has it been done before? Thank you.

  • Tue, Jan 29 2013 9:20 AM In reply to

    Re: UpRez Workflow for Sequences

    Hello silent forum....This was the answer from Boris.


    Ultimately, the direct approach I would recommend would be to first UpRez the SD clips one by one, but add a few seconds to these clips (for reasons I will go over in a moment). Then, render those clips out, as self-contained HD files - this way, you can import them into Avid and they will be raw media, without any effects applied to them. As for the additional few seconds, I suggest this because you will need some Headroom/Tailroom for a Transition to take place, and for the purposes of image quality, I would strongly suggest performing the UpRez first, and then create the Transitions after you've performed the upscale, otherwise you'll be upscaling the Transition as well. If it's a simple transition, such as a wipe or a dissolve, you might be able to add the Transitions first, and upscale the entire timeline at once afterwards; this might not yield the same visual clarity, but would only necessitate one UpRez application.

    Thank you Jon. That is what I thought: I lose image quality when adding the
    effects to the SD timeline. I will have to find a way to export the SD clips with handle length
    re-import them, uprez them and then apply the effects. I still wonder how I can do that
    the fastest way without losing timecode-, source- and sequence-informations. I mean,
    I don't want to re-edit everything, I just want to sort-of "update my edited sequence with the uprezed
    material. Any idea? Thank you for your thoughts about that.
  • Tue, Jan 29 2013 10:45 AM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
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    Re: UpRez Workflow for Sequences

    I have done this quite a lot in the past, not so much any longer, and the workflow is similar to what you got described by Jon.

    So, I start with Sd on an Sd timeline adding all / most of my Sd media there unedited, that is if I´m gonna use most of it otherwise I do some rough cutting leaving lots of space at the end and beginning of the clips, you never know if you want to use some more during the later edits.

    The audio goes with it of course.

    To be sure to not have any field conflicts later on I have used Avid 1 : 1 as import codec for that media, if you import from firewire captured tapes I will recommend a Video mixdown to 1 : 1 and replace after that.

    Now just send out a qt ref and switch to Hd, then import that Qt ref back with settings " do not resize " and DNx codec at your choice.

    Add that import on a copy of the old Sd sequense only adding the video to be able to find the old gaps between the clips as you still have the old audio on it.

    Now add BCC uprez to upscale and when you are satisfied with your settings add edits also at the video track at the same place as the old edits on the audiotrack to have it all as when you was in SD mode and render this out, talk a walk or go shopping when you do that or do a night render.

    Once the precomputes are created just so start your edit, maybe you want to do mixdowns of those precomputes before starting to edit.

    Mac: 17" Macbook Pro i7 2,66 ghz with 8Gb Ram, 500gb 7200rpm drive___ PC_NEW Win10 Pro Mbo Asus Rampage IV Black CPU Ivy Bridge-E 4960X ( = 12 x 4... [view my complete system specs]

    Tomas 

     

  • Wed, Jan 30 2013 5:14 PM In reply to

    Re: UpRez Workflow for Sequences

    Thank you! I will try that.

  • Wed, Feb 27 2013 9:13 PM In reply to

    • digiblizzo
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    Re: UpRez Workflow for Sequences

    Dear Stefan,

    AVID newbie here in terms of editing in HD...I read your post and many others but am sorely in need of a step-by-step workflow detailed to me as I'm in codec HELL right now trying to figure out the exact steps to upres SD footage to HD so I can get these edits done...

    Are you able to provide a step-by-step delineation of your workflow regarding the upres from SD to HD then taking these upres files and finally editing in HD?

    ANY assistance is greatly appreciated Mon!

    Mac OSX 10.6.8, 750GB hard drive Dell U2711 27" 2560x1440 HD monitor MacPro 3.1 Quad Core Intel Xeon 2x2.8GHz processor 6GB memory Radeon HD 2600 [view my complete system specs]

    ...remember Mon...de higher de monkey climb, de mo' of him ass him sho'...don't be no monkey Mon...=)

  • Wed, Feb 27 2013 9:26 PM In reply to

    Re: UpRez Workflow for Sequences

    The normal approach to this in post at the finishing stage is to edit the offline as normal.

    Then lift all the SD content up out of the sequence to a free video track above but keeping the same position in the time line.

    Then trim the heads and tails out as required for disolves etc.

    Then export that as a flat track SD.

    Convert outside to HD using whatever works best for you. The import back into the conformed HD project.

    Drop that HD upressed clip back in along that top track and then mark the clips using the holes in the original bed and drag the new shots back down into the sequence.

    You then have the handles you want.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

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  • Wed, Feb 27 2013 9:50 PM In reply to

    • smrpix
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    Re: UpRez Workflow for Sequences

    Here's another alternative.

    With your project in it's final HD resolution

    Find the SD shots you want to uprez

    Trace them back to their bins

    Display the reformat column in your bin

    Choose Center Keep Size in the Reformat column

    Use Refresh Sequence if necessary (Tomas, didn't you teach me this one?)

    Apply BCC UpRez on a shot by shot basis, (drag "good" effects into bins to reuse settings)

    This way your "originals" will retain all their heads and tails for effects.

    You can still expect some long renders.

    Whether this method or the others work best really depends on how much footage you need to uprez.

     

  • Wed, Feb 27 2013 10:26 PM In reply to

    • Bluefish444
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    Re: UpRez Workflow for Sequences

    Hello Stefan, 

    My understanding of this type of workflow would be to continue to work in a HD project using the SD clips to offline you project. For the Online process the SD Clips can be reconformed and captured from a HD-SDI Video source previously up-converted by a high quality Hardware scaler, or using Bluefish444 video IO hardware will allow SD SDI video to upscaled while capturing directly into Media Composer or Symphony.

    For more information on Hardware Video scaling technology you can visit the Bluefish444 website where we show some of the benefits of this technology. VIDEO SCALING

     

    Regards,
    Tom Lithgow

    Bluefish444 

  • Thu, Feb 28 2013 7:01 AM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
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    Re: UpRez Workflow for Sequences

    digiblizzo:

     in need of a step-by-step workflow detailed to me as I'm in codec HELL right now trying to figure out the exact steps to upres SD footage to HD so I can get these edits done...

    Are you able to provide a step-by-step delineation of your workflow regarding the upres from SD to HD then taking these upres files and finally editing in HD?

    I actually think that my post was close to this step to step guide, could have been even more detailed of course but at least close to

     

    Use Refresh Sequence if necessary (Tomas, didn't you teach me this one?)

    Might have Smile

     

    Mac: 17" Macbook Pro i7 2,66 ghz with 8Gb Ram, 500gb 7200rpm drive___ PC_NEW Win10 Pro Mbo Asus Rampage IV Black CPU Ivy Bridge-E 4960X ( = 12 x 4... [view my complete system specs]

    Tomas 

     

  • Fri, Mar 1 2013 6:20 PM In reply to

    • digiblizzo
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    Re: UpRez Workflow for Sequences

    indeed, I am grateful for the replies...reading the workflows presented and STILL not getting it...must be from the "show me" state of Missouri...smh

    Some workflows involve uprezzing each clip to HD before editing, some suggest editing in SD then exporting a QT reference then importing that reference for over-cutting into the HD project, some say just open the SD bins to the HD projet on the finder level then voila!, your SD clips are now upconverted to HD...

    I'm so confused right now I wanna hold TWO cocktails, not one as HandBrake suggests...

    Help?...please...

     

     

     

     

    Mac OSX 10.6.8, 750GB hard drive Dell U2711 27" 2560x1440 HD monitor MacPro 3.1 Quad Core Intel Xeon 2x2.8GHz processor 6GB memory Radeon HD 2600 [view my complete system specs]

    ...remember Mon...de higher de monkey climb, de mo' of him ass him sho'...don't be no monkey Mon...=)

  • Fri, Mar 1 2013 6:32 PM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
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    Re: UpRez Workflow for Sequences

    mjolnarn:

    I have done this quite a lot in the past, not so much any longer, and the workflow is similar to what you got described by Jon.

    So, I start with Sd on an Sd timeline adding all / most of my Sd media there unedited, that is if I´m gonna use most of it otherwise I do some rough cutting leaving lots of space at the end and beginning of the clips, you never know if you want to use some more during the later edits.

    The audio goes with it of course.

    To be sure to not have any field conflicts later on I have used Avid 1 : 1 as import codec for that media, if you import from firewire captured tapes I will recommend a Video mixdown to 1 : 1 and replace after that.

    Now just send out a qt ref and switch to Hd, then import that Qt ref back with settings " do not resize " and DNx codec at your choice.

    Add that import on a copy of the old Sd sequense only adding the video to be able to find the old gaps between the clips as you still have the old audio on it.

    Now add BCC uprez to upscale and when you are satisfied with your settings add edits also at the video track at the same place as the old edits on the audiotrack to have it all as when you was in SD mode and render this out, talk a walk or go shopping when you do that or do a night render.

    Once the precomputes are created just so start your edit, maybe you want to do mixdowns of those precomputes before starting to edit.

    Quoting this one more time

     

    Mac: 17" Macbook Pro i7 2,66 ghz with 8Gb Ram, 500gb 7200rpm drive___ PC_NEW Win10 Pro Mbo Asus Rampage IV Black CPU Ivy Bridge-E 4960X ( = 12 x 4... [view my complete system specs]

    Tomas 

     

  • Tue, Mar 5 2013 1:53 PM In reply to

    • DStone
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    Re: UpRez Workflow for Sequences

    Before you spend a lot of time on a worflow involving BCC Uprez, try a test case where you use Uprez on a clip and then compare that to the same clip simply dropped onto an HD timeline.

    I honestly haven't been able to get a significantly better image from Uprez then just from using the SD clip on the HD timeline. I'm sure there are situations where it's warranted, but I had a lot of old talking head shots that I needed to use in an HD project, and there was no discernable difference in quality when tried both ways. Granted these are all simple shots with little motion. But I found that the time to do the BCC Uprez wasn't worth the wait in my case. Your milage may vary.

    DIY quad core I7-4790K, 32Gb, NVidia GTX 970 4GB, Win 10 Pro, MC(generally the latest or the one just before), MC 7.x [view my complete system specs]

    Dave S.

  • Tue, Mar 5 2013 2:41 PM In reply to

    • Vilem
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    Re: UpRez Workflow for Sequences

    Here instructions and compared by Douglas.

    V.

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  • Mon, Jan 5 2015 4:18 PM In reply to

    Re: UpRez Workflow for Sequences

    Mjolnarn, thanks for your advice on this.

    However I can't follow this phrase:

    'just send out a qt ref and switch to Hd'.

    Do you mean export the sequence as a QT Ref, magically uprez it outside Avid them reimport it?

    Or export as QT Ref, create a new bin in 1080 then reimport the sequence as a DNx?

    Bit confused.

    Thanks,

    J

     

    MC v 8.3, dongle-activated. 1. HP xw8400 Workstation. Twin Intel® Xeon™ 5160 Dual Core. Windows 7 Pro. 4 GB RAM. Nvidia Quadro FX3500. 2. Dell Precision... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jan 5 2015 4:27 PM In reply to

    Re: UpRez Workflow for Sequences

    joepineapples:

    Mjolnarn, thanks for your advice on this.

    However I can't follow this phrase:

    'just send out a qt ref and switch to Hd'.

    Do you mean export the sequence as a QT Ref, magically uprez it outside Avid them reimport it?

    Or export as QT Ref, create a new bin in 1080 then reimport the sequence as a DNx?

    Bit confused.

    Thanks,

    J

     

     

    Exporting as a QT Ref just gives you a file pointing to yoiu SD sources. But if you import into an HD project you will make HD media as part of the import process. That will scale the3 media.

    That will work but I've never found the MC import scaling to be great. OK for offline but not great.

    Better to take that SD QT REF and scale outsdie MC and then AMA link or import.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


    Media Composer V8.2 Review Background Render

    -

    Follow me on Twitter Pat_H_VET

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