Latest post Fri, Jun 29 2012 5:44 PM by w33q. 45 replies.
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  • Thu, May 10 2012 10:14 PM In reply to

    • w33q
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark 3 files to MC6

  • Thu, Jun 14 2012 5:44 AM In reply to

    Re: Canon 5D Mark 3 files to MC6

    Ok I might be a little late to the game on this. I have a Cannon 5D Mkii and here is my general advice. 

    If you are shooting/editing the footage by yourself or in a small group where there will only be one person cutting at a time, I would just use Adobe Premiere (stop turning your nose up people and let me explain). Avid's main advantages are in its ability to have multiple editors, at different locations, working on massive, massive amounts of footage (and workflows for the super expensive cameras).

    If you work in Final Cut Pro (7 the old good one) or X, you'll have to transcode your footage into AppleProRes and the quality of your footage will go down and it will increase your workflow time by a factor of about 3-6x while you let that all transcode. Some religious Final Cut users might tell you that it isn't a big deal, but the H.264 (type of .mov) is already a compressed format and compressing it again is a bad idea, imho. If you try to edit h.264 native in Final Cut its choppy an annoying unless you have some redciulous computer. 

    People will also tell you H.264 is a distribution format and that you shouldn't edit in it and someone told them that and they're just going to keep repeating it whether it makes sense or not in context.

    You can edit the linked h.264 files in Avid without transcoding, but when I've tried this with my 5D mkii footage on a 3+ ghz Mac with 16gb of Ram it was still choppy and annoying to deal with. I could only imagine it would be worse on a similar spec PC. You can transcode, but this is more uneccessary time just to edit in Avid for the sake of saying you're editing in Avid.

    It sounds like you just want to shoot/edit yourself or maybe in a small team. If this is the case I would go with Adobe Premiere 6. You can edit natively in H.264 without any problems or transcoding or creating disk images or any annoying crap like that. Also you'll have integration with After Effects for easy image stablaization tools, replacing VFX shots, etc. You can also do a basic primary color correction inside Premiere without adding any steps to the workflow.

    People are going to turn their nose up at what I'm saying, but for the Mkii/Mkiii editing in Adobe Premiere is the quickest, most effecient way to edit, and there is NO TRANSCODING. That means no loss in quality and no added time.

    AVID is for when there are tons of people working on tons of footage from a different places, shot on super high end cameras. For that it's hands down the best, really the only option.

  • Thu, Jun 14 2012 5:33 PM In reply to

    • w33q
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark 3 files to MC6

    Not late at all. Thanks for sharing your advices! I probalby buy the iMac 27" with high specs, but I don't know what I should use. But I don't want to use Adobe Premium. 

    So if I use Final Cut Pro 7 or X do I need to transcode it to ProRes first? Are you sure its decrease the video quality?

  • Thu, Jun 14 2012 9:01 PM In reply to

    Re: Canon 5D Mark 3 files to MC6

    I understand, 3 months ago I would have said the same exact thing about working on Adobe Permiere, it sounds like a total amaetuer move (but Final Cut is all but dead and in a year no one will be using it). 

    You can try to edit native H.264 in Final Cut, and it is possible, but I have heard it is a HUGE, HUGE, pain in the A.

    Yesh you will lose so image quality, but a lot of people seem to be OK with it. If it's web stuff it will probably be fine I just like to cut down on the workflow time as much as possible. If you're having to export a lot of different formats it might save you some time to convert to ProRes anyway, depending on how much raw footage you usually have compared to final project time.

    You might want to check out this tutorial, it's a pay locked tutorial but if you're dead set on Final Cut and will be working with it a lot it could be worth it:

    http://www.lynda.com/Final-Cut-Pro-6-tutorials/photography-video-workflow-final-cut-pro-canon-5d-mark-ii/48108-2.html?srchtrk=index%3A1%0Alinktypeid%3A2%0Aq%3Acanon%205d%0Apage%3A1%0As%3Arelevance%0Asa%3Atrue%0Aproducttypeid%3A2

     

     

  • Thu, Jun 14 2012 9:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Canon 5D Mark 3 files to MC6

    http://www.larryjordan.biz/editing-h-264-video-natively/

  • Thu, Jun 14 2012 11:56 PM In reply to

    • w33q
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark 3 files to MC6

    Thanks for the link.

    So what format 5 Mark 3 is recording? I will buy mark 3. 

    We need to edit Full HD without loss any quality. So is mark3 recording all the footage uncompressed or compressed? And I would like to use Final Cut Pro but it does not work with new mac, only X and it blows. So I think Avid is good even I work alone?

  • Wed, Jun 27 2012 9:51 PM In reply to

    • Danny
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark 3 files to MC6

    Normal 0 false false false EN-US JA X-NONE /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}

    Hunter, interesting to see what you say about 5D footage being choppy in AVID. Was your expereince with choppy footage while using Media Composer 6?  I have been told that MC6 handles 5D files natively as long as the project isn't too big.  I am migrating to either MC6 or Adobe PP.  I am very curious...

     

    Thanks

     

    Thanks

    Hunter Leachman:
    You can edit the linked h.264 files in Avid without transcoding, but when I've tried this with my 5D mkii footage on a 3+ ghz Mac with 16gb of Ram it was still choppy and annoying to deal with.

     

    iMac 27" 3.4 ghz 32gb RAM [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jun 28 2012 1:08 AM In reply to

    Re: Canon 5D Mark 3 files to MC6

    Danny,

    Playback was choppy for me in MC6. I had about 4 hours of raw footwage to be cut down to 4 minutes. I hate to bash AVID on their own site, but the main advantages of Avid pertain to working with massive amounts of footage or working with several different editors simultaneously, so saying it only works as long as the project "isn't too big" is kind of pointless.

    Forgive me for the violent analogy, but it's like saying a certain kind of atomic bomb will work great as long as you're only trying to kill a few people.

    To be fair, it got choppy in Premiere CS6 too after a few hours of working, but a quick restart of the program would fix this. In Avid MC6 I could never get it to play smoothly without transcoding. 

    People may tell you that the .mov|h.264 format that comes off the 5D is a bad format for editing. It's true that this can cause problems in some NLEs/VFX/color correction suites because it's a compressed format and there isn't enough bit depth to do color correction and VFX work.

    ***If you don't care about the details you can skip this part.**************

    The best analogy for the compressed file format problem goes like this:

    alcohol = raw footage

    mixers and ice = color correction and VFX

    glasses = file format

    You're having a party and you have plenty of alcohol for everyone coming over. The problem is you only have 1oz shot glasses (h.264 compressed video format). If everyone just wants to drink straight up and take shots (no color correction or VFX) there's no problem. But if they want mixed drinks or ice, you'll have to mix these in a small shot glass. You'll inevitably overflow and spill some of your precious alcohol (lost image information) AND it's impossible to give your guests a full 1oz of alcohol on top of the mixer (degredation of footage). 

    Adobe (After Effects and Premiere) brings solo cups (32bit float fomat) to the party though, so everyone can mix and drink away with no transcoding!!!

    Couldn't hold the metaphor all the way through.

    *******************************************************************

    Anyway, the bit depth blues don't apply when using Premiere or After Effects so you can do color correction and VFX work inside the suite with no worries or transcoding. I'm not sure if Avid MC6 has similar functionality or not, but for me, I couldn't get it to play back smoothly without transcoding.

    If you're a freelance editor or assistant editor that will be working on large/collaborative jobs and shoot on your 5D for small personal projects, then I would go with Avid MC6. 

    If you're shooting/editing/VFXing all on your own, or in a small group, then go with Adobe CS6.

    If you're a freelance VFX guy, and shoot on your 5D for small personal projects, then maybe think about Autodesk Smoke.

    I tend to shoot smaller budget things and take them start to finish by myself using the 5D mark ii. Personally, I think Adobe CS6 is the best for this kind of work and the best value for the money. It also doesn't require any transcoding which is a HUGE, HUGE time saver.

    A lot of people may turn their nose up at Permiere ( I was the same way 4 months ago), but for 5D footage with one editor, it's hands down the best option. 

    As a side note, if you shoot on the 5D at all, get on youtube and check out some Phillip Bloom videos. He is THE big pimp of DSLRs : http://youtu.be/TNNqUm_nSXk

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • Thu, Jun 28 2012 1:23 AM In reply to

    • w33q
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, May 9 2012
    • Posts 4
    • Points 90

    Re: Canon 5D Mark 3 files to MC6

    Ok. Very nice  

    So ok. If I say we are going to make a webseries and we have a hours of footage from 5d mark 3. I would like to edit with MC6. We use VFX. We are using Windows 7 and very powerful PC. Importing to MC6, what format? And if I color correct using Davinci. Can I just use MC6 without losing full hd quality??

  • Thu, Jun 28 2012 1:31 AM In reply to

    Re: Canon 5D Mark 3 files to MC6

    W33q,

    It is recording as a quicktime .mov | h.264 format, which is a compressed format, but it is still full HD (1080p). The compression mainly shows up with issues of rolling shutter, aliasing, and moire. Although the later two have been greatly imporved from the Markii to the Markiii. 

    Yes, Final Cut is done. Forget about it. Apple screwed that one up and it's never coming back. Anyone that still talks about Final Cut anymore makes themselves sound like an old man (no offense, whatever age you are I'm sure you're looking fabulous).

    Yes, of course Avid is good. When I have used it with 5D mark ii/markiii footage I had to transcode. But I say this after you insist that you won't use Premiere, which again I can understand. It's not as sexy sounding as Avid.

    Again in practice, I think Adobe CS6 is the best for the 5D mark ii/mark iii, but you might have to do some convincing with clients and such, and many of them simply won't be convicned. People get these conceptions in their head about what's good and what's not/ what's professional and what's not. And convincing them otherwise can sometime be more trouble than it's worth.

    If you're doing VFX or color correction with your footage, be careful about what format/bit depth you transcode into.

     

  • Thu, Jun 28 2012 1:41 AM In reply to

    Re: Canon 5D Mark 3 files to MC6

    w33q

    Check out this link:

    http://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2010/10/09/easy-canon-5d-post-%E2%80%93-round-iii/

    down towards the bottom there is a section on:

    "Recommendations for Avid Media Composer editors"

    This should give you an idea of the process.

    I gave up on the 5D/Avid workflow so I don't have much direct experience at this point and don't want to *** you.

    Let me know what happens. Interested to hear how it goes.

     

     

     

  • Thu, Jun 28 2012 1:45 AM In reply to

    Re: Canon 5D Mark 3 files to MC6

    And as for Avid to Resolve,

    read through this one: http://community.avid.com/forums/p/99156/570534.aspx

  • Thu, Jun 28 2012 2:05 AM In reply to

    • w33q
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, May 9 2012
    • Posts 4
    • Points 90

    Re: Canon 5D Mark 3 files to MC6

    Ok. So the bottom line is for 5D Mark 3 that transcode to DNxHD or ProRes? Which one is better if doing VFX and of course grading? 

    You make me think to buy 50k RED xD I want to do professional looking webseries/movies with mark 3.

     

     

     

  • Thu, Jun 28 2012 7:18 AM In reply to

    Re: Canon 5D Mark 3 files to MC6

    w33q:

    I just read http://video-editing.findthebest.com/compare/38-44/Avid-Media-Composer-vs-Final-Cut-Pro-X 

    that Media Composer 6 only supports 24video tracks and 99 audio tracks. WTF :O

    If they edit movies, there are hundreds of clips/tracks! How this can be possible?? What they do for fix this?

     

    Don't confuse clips with Tracks. MC can support thousands of clips, 10's of thousands even hundreds of thousands or more.

    And even the most complex film doesn't need that many tracks. Each clip used doesn't have it's own track.

    Sequences tend to be built with tracks that represent particular timeline content.

    So V1 may have original source clips. Maybe V2-5 may have picture in picture media or other effects (and this could even have more tracks but nesting of effects can keep that number under control) then you may have straps and titles on V6 and even subtitles on V7.

    Also don't forget some lesser systems need you to use multimple tracks to transition between clips which with MC you can often do on the same track.

    On the audio side it is possible you could need more but then MC isn't designed for that sort of work. Avid have Protools that is designed for that and very strong collaberation between MC and Protools to make that painless.

    Oh an if your interested in considering H264 as anything otehr than aquisition or distribution do some searching on temporal compression and H264. While editing frames that are based on frames around them are harder to work with and don;t like being seperated up. You can edit H264 but it's not great as an edit format.

     

    And if you have the right hardware AMA 5D files will play well via AMA. Try an HP Z800 or even the currently unsupported Z820 liquid cooled machines.

    Even the Red camp are moving in that direction for serious heavy work. http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?81124-HP-820-Tower-RED-EDITION

     

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

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  • Thu, Jun 28 2012 5:14 PM In reply to

    • Danny
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    Re: Canon 5D Mark 3 files to MC6

    Normal 0 false false false EN-US JA X-NONE /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}

    Hunter,

     

    Thanks for the response.  It was worth just for the metaphor effort. I’m not an editor, but I play one at home.  I am a writer and about to be a director. I find myself editing thing to help along the way. I hate to use this word, but I make sizzle reels.  These have involved boiling down bits from 50 films, adding effects and a lot of sound work.  I edited some short films and very much liked the process of working on sound and picture editing. Recently, while trying to work out how to shoot something that I pretend I know how to do I went out to the desert and shot something that required mixing camera movement, real time, time lapse and green screen and I then put it all together.  I’m also in the middle of a long-term project of filming the vermin that live around and in my house. So I’m no editor, but I do more than birthday videos.

    I have been using FC.  Now I find I am shooting mostly on Canon DSLr.  I hate transcoding.  Given all that Premier seemed the best choice.

    But…

    Arguing for MC6 are a couple things. The main thing is I don’t know a single person who uses Premiere.  Who will I call every time I’m in way over my head?  Everyone uses Avid. Also the film I’ll be directing is going to cut on Avid. Of course I won’t be doing the cutting, but it’s fun to know what’s going on. 

    This all began because I read that MC6 handles the DLSr files and I was really sick of all the transcoding and he HD hogging with double files and such.  But now, if I understand correctly, I see I may have to transcode anyway. Right now, in an effort to learn one program or he other I am going to take about 1.25 hours of DSLr footage of honey bees (that have a hive in the wall of my house) and mining bees (that have appeared out of nowhere outside the house I grew up in in Michigan – no global warming, my ass) and edit this down to about 3 minutes – with some of it that I shot at 60 fps slowed with … Twixtor? I guess. And this is where I was about to use MC6 sans transcoding and got all confused.

    Then I got more confused being told CS6, like MC6 handles H.264 natively and then being told it does not handle it smoothly.

    Thanks for your thoughtful and amusing response.

    iMac 27" 3.4 ghz 32gb RAM [view my complete system specs]
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