Latest post Tue, Feb 21 2012 9:15 PM by Job ter Burg. 12 replies.
Page 1 of 1 (13 items)
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Mon, Feb 20 2012 10:29 PM

    MC5.0.3, Loudness normes and audio imports

    Hello

    I am writing from France where, since the begining of the year, peak metering has been abandoned  for a Loudness metering. I have numerous problems with MC 5.03 audio and my Mojo DX. Primarily, I get a systematic 3db increase of audio imports in to the avid, that I could rectify using a compressor and that I could easily measure the peak.

    With the new loudness normes, I no longer have a way to verify the audio with in the avid for diffusion.

    I am wondering what the mojo -20db does. I set it to -18db as that is the French norme but I have no idea why I do this or if this is any use with the new nomes. I know that most western countries have adopted this new Loudness measure so I was wondering what you are all doing.

    Many thanks

  • Mon, Feb 20 2012 10:40 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5.0.3, Loudness normes and audio imports

    Christopher, you should not be seeing a 3dB increase, unless you are summing channels some way during playback. An import is an import, a bit is a bit, and I have always been able to achieve unity in levels with digital imports.

    The -20 / -18 setting only bears relevance to how you are converting to (and measuring) analog output.

    So: what is your workflow, what is your audio output set to, how is your panning set, and where/how are you measuring?

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | Decklink Studio |... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Feb 20 2012 11:17 PM In reply to

    • chepal
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • germany
    • Posts 489
    • Points 5,655

    Re: MC5.0.3, Loudness normes and audio imports

    for the new "LUFS -23db", you have to use hardware and software_plugins - it's a new ebu standard:

    http://tech.ebu.ch/loudness
    http://tech.ebu.ch/groups/ploud
    http://www.loudnesssummit.com/pdfs/speakers/MatthieuParmentier.pdf

    but if you go with your mix to PT, nuendo etc. - the sound_guys/girls do it for you

    che

    mac_mc_8, mc_6.5, scsi, fibre, sata [view my complete system specs]

    peace from germany

  • Mon, Feb 20 2012 11:33 PM In reply to

    • ctrl+z
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sat, Jul 14 2007
    • Posts 20
    • Points 240

    Re: MC5.0.3, Loudness normes and audio imports

    Nugen's LM-Correct is good for checking and (to some extent) correcting audio levels.

    Works much faster than real time from within MC.

     

    http://www.nugenaudio.com/LM-Correct_Avid_Audiosuite_RTAS_VST_AU_loudness_measure_correct.php

    MC7, mojo DX, xw8600, 24GB RAM, quadro FX3700, 12TB LSI raid 6, Win 7 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Feb 20 2012 11:33 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5.0.3, Loudness normes and audio imports

    Many thanks for the reply. My problem is that I receive the mix and sync to picture for diffusion. My first problem is that when i import as wave file that is correct and immediately reexport that file out of the bin and read the exported file in protools, the exported file has +3dbs. This is a mystery.

    Che, My final destination is a digibeta fed by an sdi signal. Does the -18 setting have a consequence on this?

    Many thanks for the docs. They are useful. But how can one measure all this?

     

     

  • Mon, Feb 20 2012 11:35 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5.0.3, Loudness normes and audio imports

    chepal:
    for the new "LUFS -23db", you have to use hardware and software_plugins - it's a new ebu

    Like LevelNorm by Grimm Audio.

    Other than that, you should not see level discrepancies when importing.

    It's very simple, you should ask the sound house to provide you with a reference level, for instance -18dBFS (ARD/ZDF). When you import that and play it back with the pannings hard Left/Right, you should see _exactly_ -18dBFS on your digital scale. Never mind the analog level it translates to.

    If you're not seeing the very same reference level during playback, it's very likely you're either set to mono output, or you have pannings set to center, or you have multiple tracks summing up.

    If you're just seeing different short peaks in dialogues or sfx, that may have a lot to do with the type of metering you are using. Some meters respond to very short peaks, others (like RTW PPM's) are a tad bit slower by specification and design.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | Decklink Studio |... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Feb 21 2012 12:16 AM In reply to

    • Merlin2004
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Sydney, Australia
    • Posts 149
    • Points 1,835

    Re: MC5.0.3, Loudness normes and audio imports

    This is not the "All Tracks Centered" bug which started at Version 5 is it?

    Check you Audio settings. The setting should be Alternating L/R.

    The default "All Tracks Centered" will raise the combined dual mono level by 3db.

    Freelance. Whatever turns up! [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Feb 21 2012 6:40 AM In reply to

    • luca.mg
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Roma - Italy
    • Posts 4,591
    • Points 54,165

    Re: MC5.0.3, Loudness normes and audio imports

    It's not a bug, it's a feature! Very annoying though...

    MC 8.2 MXO2, P9X79 Pro i7-3930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K600, StarTech PEX1394B3 FW controller, two 2x1TB raid 0 stripes + MC 3 on G4 MacBook 17" [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Tue, Feb 21 2012 8:22 AM In reply to

    • TrevorA
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • London
    • Posts 794
    • Points 9,110

    Re: MC5.0.3, Loudness normes and audio imports

    christopher@fearlesstv.com:
    I get a systematic 3db increase of audio imports in to the avid

    There is an attenuation option in the audio import settings (primarily used to drop -0dBFS recordings by 10-12 dB, but *could* be set to -3dB).

    But your other posts seem to indicate that this is an export issue.

    This is where line up tone would be handy... (e.g. "EBU recommendation R 49-1999 [1] describes a line up tone that identifies the Left stereo, or channel 1, by means of interrupting a 1 kHz tone at the alignment level for 250 ms every 3 seconds.")

    If you had stereo ID tone on the import then you could check if the track had been centre panned when you export.

    Freelance - so all kinds of everything. Currently v7.0.3 on an HPz800 with NitrisDX on Interplay/ISIS [view my complete system specs]

     

     

    Avid, Adobe, FCP7, FCPx, EVS, Tape, whatever.

    EVS IPEdit and IPDirector bespoke training.

    London editor.

     

  • Tue, Feb 21 2012 10:08 AM In reply to

    Re: MC5.0.3, Loudness normes and audio imports

    A -3dB gain during import can of course never increase the level...

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | Decklink Studio |... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Feb 21 2012 10:32 AM In reply to

    • TrevorA
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • London
    • Posts 794
    • Points 9,110

    Re: MC5.0.3, Loudness normes and audio imports

    -doh

    Freelance - so all kinds of everything. Currently v7.0.3 on an HPz800 with NitrisDX on Interplay/ISIS [view my complete system specs]

     

     

    Avid, Adobe, FCP7, FCPx, EVS, Tape, whatever.

    EVS IPEdit and IPDirector bespoke training.

    London editor.

     

  • Tue, Feb 21 2012 9:03 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5.0.3, Loudness normes and audio imports

    Well, it was the "bug". What a really crap idea to change this setting.Never really understood what the audio setting is for. Now I know.

    Many thanks.

    It strikes me as an essential feature to have a metering system that can accurately read these new norms.

    Does anone know what the Dolby E setting does? Dolby E is part of this new norm.

  • Tue, Feb 21 2012 9:15 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5.0.3, Loudness normes and audio imports

    Dolby E is a codec, taking multiple tracks (typically 5.1 surround sound) and compressing it into a single AES-stream, and therefore on any PCM tracks (on recorders or disks). Not a norm, but a delivery format.

    The idea of the new loudness norm in general is that you need not pay too much attention to any meter, but just mix with your hands and ears, then roll it through something like LevelNorm to make sure it's technically up to specs.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | Decklink Studio |... [view my complete system specs]
Page 1 of 1 (13 items)

© Copyright 2011 Avid Technology, Inc.  Terms of Use |  Privacy Policy |  Site Map |  Find a Reseller