Latest post Thu, Jan 26 2012 7:15 AM by Lord Fluff. 29 replies.
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  • Fri, Jan 6 2012 11:39 AM In reply to

    • Lord Fluff
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    Re: Weird timeline 'hop'

    Pat Horridge:

    Playback delay in the video display setting I'd guess.

    You're absolutely right Pat, thanks.

    It seems to take the Motu 5 frames to 'get going', so during playback the audio is in sync, but as soon as you hit stop the timeline position bar hops forward 5 frames to reflect reality.

    My setup is a 2011 MBP with the Motu connected via Expresscard connection.

    Is this a common problem with off-board video IO? I have to say, it's bloody annoying. If I want to edit I really have to turn the client monitor off  (on the Avid) so that I have proper snappy response and I can hit Stop, Mark In, and have the In be in the right place.

    I'm tempted to try out another IO box such as the BlackMagic UltraStudio 3D (though I'd need to buy an Apple display to go with it), but it will be a pricey game to play if all such boxes behave like this....

    HP z820, Decklink Extreme+, Areca RAID, Artist Colour, Symphony 6 // MBP17, UltraStudio3D, Pegasus TB RAID, MC6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Jan 6 2012 12:40 PM In reply to

    Re: Weird timeline 'hop'

    Using the Avid DX hardware and you don't get that. Part of what you get for the extra initial expense.

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

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  • Sat, Jan 7 2012 6:08 PM In reply to

    Re: Weird timeline 'hop'

    Same Problem here, just upgraded to 10.7.2 und MC6 because of my neu Motu (HDX-sdi).

    "hops"  6 to 8 frames, in all the Timelines in any Project i have (from 576i - 720p - 1080i)

    just got everything working (even the workaround with the foreign Keyboard is not working)

    new User, old User / confince View on-off / nothing works so far.

     

    let see what other Bugs show up, when i start to edit next week! 

     

    MIchael 

    3 GHz 8 core Intel Xeon E5 MacProlate 2013/ 64 GB / 10.12.6 / MC18.12.3 / AMD FirePro D300 2048 MB [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jan 7 2012 6:21 PM In reply to

    • Lord Fluff
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    Re: Weird timeline 'hop'

    Seems like this is a standard 'feature' of using the Motu with MC - though it is shown as fully certified as Avid compatible - and I have to say it's a very good little unit in all other respects.

    If I'm trying to work quickly I must admit it does help to disable the client monitor which all but eliminates this issue.

    It would be great if more Motu owners could check that this happens to them too, which I suspect it will, but depending on how you work it may not have been that noticeable to you so far.

    HP z820, Decklink Extreme+, Areca RAID, Artist Colour, Symphony 6 // MBP17, UltraStudio3D, Pegasus TB RAID, MC6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jan 7 2012 6:31 PM In reply to

    Re: Weird timeline 'hop'

    This has always been an effect of using non Avid hardware. Even using an old firewire bridge on an Avid would introduce a 4 or 5 frame delay.

    One of the key differences with the Avid hardware is that the Avid code is designed to work with it seamlessly and with the 3rd parties I suspect the need to have effectively a gateway to cope with the different hardwares and the API to allow that compatibility prevents that close tie up between the software and the hardware.

    Imagine it as a translation process having to happen that take the Avid data and makes it into a universal "language" the various 3rd party drives then having to translate that to the specific hardware needs. Where as with the Avid setup it's all one common language.

    Avid have refered to their hardware as "accelerated" and I've always understood that to be part of this immediate output ability.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |

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  • Sat, Jan 7 2012 6:48 PM In reply to

    • Lord Fluff
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    Re: Weird timeline 'hop'

    Thanks Pat - this is my first experience of a home setup after 12 years on 'proper' Avid systems, so my first thought was it must be specific to this unit, a setting, or at least this model of IO box. If I'm likely to experience the same issue regardless of manufacturer then at least I can suck it up and move on.

    HP z820, Decklink Extreme+, Areca RAID, Artist Colour, Symphony 6 // MBP17, UltraStudio3D, Pegasus TB RAID, MC6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jan 7 2012 7:26 PM In reply to

    Re: Weird timeline 'hop'

    Lord Fluff:
    If I'm likely to experience the same issue regardless of manufacturer

    FWIW, I have the Matrox MXO2 Mini and don't experience any sync or timeline hop issues as described here.  I'm still on v5.5 Mac Pro at home.

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Sat, Jan 7 2012 7:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Weird timeline 'hop'

    well, if its not working correctly, why do i find this:

    <http://www.motu.com/video-products/avid>

    MOTU video interfaces are the ideal economical, all-in-one video capture and monitoring solutions for Media Composer 6 workflows.

    Fully qualified for Media Composer

    MOTU and Avid have worked closely together to deliver seamless setup and operation for the HDX-SDI and HD Express with Media Composer using the new Open I/O features in Version 6.

     

    thinking of writing a letter here: 

    <http://avid.force.com/pkb/LegacySearch?DocId=420611>

    3 GHz 8 core Intel Xeon E5 MacProlate 2013/ 64 GB / 10.12.6 / MC18.12.3 / AMD FirePro D300 2048 MB [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jan 17 2012 8:08 PM In reply to

    • PDeVine3
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    Re: Weird timeline 'hop'

    Hi there,

    I am running a 12 core mac pro with media composer 6 and am having this same issue.  it isnt a 6 frame jump, only a single frame, but it is occuring none the less. 

    the system is running full DX Nitris hardware and is playing down media from an Avid ISIS in our facility.  it happens on multiple systems including a 12 core software only MC 6 system playing off the ISIS as well.

    is this how the software behaves normally?  from some of the responses ive seen here, i take it not, but im wondering if anyone has a solution.

     

    thanks,

    Patrick

  • Tue, Jan 17 2012 8:12 PM In reply to

    Re: Weird timeline 'hop'

    With a Nitris DX attached, I also see a slight "hop" in the timeline, but I always wrote it off to re-drawing. 

    I don't see the client monitor jump ahead when I hit stop, and that would be a bigger deal to me.

    Symphony v2019 | OS 10.13.6 • Nitris DX • 12-core MacPro (Mid 2012) • 36 GB RAM • Facilis Terrablock 24EX [view my complete system specs]

    -- Kevin

  • Tue, Jan 17 2012 8:21 PM In reply to

    • Lord Fluff
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    Re: Weird timeline 'hop'

    Kevin Klimek:

    I don't see the client monitor jump ahead when I hit stop, and that would be a bigger deal to me.

    There is no hop on the client monitor, or the composer window - only of the timeline marker itself.

    HP z820, Decklink Extreme+, Areca RAID, Artist Colour, Symphony 6 // MBP17, UltraStudio3D, Pegasus TB RAID, MC6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jan 17 2012 8:43 PM In reply to

    • PDeVine3
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    Re: Weird timeline 'hop'

    I ran a few more tests and yes although the picture does not hop forward, the play head is not stopping at the desired location which becomes more of an issue when dealing with sound and trying to get frame accurate edits.  also, while playing down, if I place an in or an out point while the sequence is playing, the in/out gets placed with a delay as well which is about 3 frames off.  for example:  if i am playing the sequence over a clapper and hit in right at the frame where the clap happens and i see the spike in the wave form, the in will be placed 2 or 3 frames further down the time line than i had intended.  

    seems like a pretty major issue in the software. this can be enormously troublesome especially in a dialogue and music editing scenario.  

    any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

     

    -patrick

  • Tue, Jan 17 2012 8:52 PM In reply to

    • Lord Fluff
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    Re: Weird timeline 'hop'

    Absolutely agree. My (less than ideal) solution to this is to disable the client monitor output - this (in the case of the MOTU) decreases the hop to a single frame, which I can live with. Cutting dialogue or audio is painful otherwise - too many years of muscle memory to fight against!

    HP z820, Decklink Extreme+, Areca RAID, Artist Colour, Symphony 6 // MBP17, UltraStudio3D, Pegasus TB RAID, MC6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jan 26 2012 6:56 AM In reply to

    • JonoB
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    Re: Weird timeline 'hop'

    I found this post yesterday and figured I'd chime in on the edit suites we have here. The information is interesting as we run the Nitris, AJA IO Express, Motu HDX-SDI as well as the Matrox MX02 LE. Please excuse the length of the post as I will provide each suite's specs as well.

    As mentioned above only the playline does the hop and the video playback does not hop. We're finding this affects the editors in various ways depending on their editing style. If you intend on hitting stop and only then mark your in/out point then its a problem. If you mark your in/out points on the fly then this doesn't affect the editing process.

     

    Edit 1: Timeline hop - 8 Frames

    MC 6.0

    Motu HDX-SDI (PCIe)

    Mac Pro - OS X 10.7.2, Intel Xeon 2.93 ghz, 8 gb ram, ATI Radeon HD 5870.

     

    Edit 2: Timeline hop - 3 Frames

    MC 6.0

    AJA IO Express

    Mac Pro - OS X 10.7.2, Intel Xeon 3.33 ghz, 12 gb ram, ATI Radeon HD 5770.

     

    Edit 3: Timeline hop - 3 Frames

    MC 6.0

    Nitris DX

    HP Z400 - Win 7, Intel Xeon 3.33 ghz, 12 gb ram, Nvidia Quadro FX 3800.

     

    Edit 4: Timeline hop - 3 Frames

    MC 6.0

    AJA IO Express

    Mac Pro - OS X 10.7.2, Intel Xeon 2.80 ghz, 16 gb ram, ATI Radeon HD 5770.

     

    Edit 6: Timeline hop - 5 Frames

    MC 6.0

     

    Matrox MX02 LE (thunderbolt)

    iMac - OS X 10.7.2, Intel i7 3.4 ghz, 16 gb ram, ATI Radeon HD 6970M.

     

    Edit 7: Timeline hop - 8 Frames

    MC 6.0

     

    Motu HDX-SDI (PCIe)

    Mac Pro - OS X 10.7.2, Intel Xeon 2.66 ghz, 16 gb ram, ATI Radeon HD 5870.

    Media Composer 8.4, Nitris DX, HP Z400, Windows 8.1 Pro, Intel Xeon 3.33GHZ 6-core, 24GB-1600ghz ram, Nvidia Quadro FX 3800. [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jan 26 2012 7:15 AM In reply to

    • Lord Fluff
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    Re: Weird timeline 'hop'

    Thanks for your input JBentz - what I first imagined to be a quirk of my setup turns out to be a universal 'feature' it would appear.....

    Just to add to this..

     

    My suite version 1 - timeline hop 5 frames

    MC6.0

    MOTU HDX-SDI

    MacBookPro 10.7.2 i7 2.3Ghz 8Gb RAM, Promise Pegasus Thunderbolt RAID

     

    My suite version 2 - timeline hop 1 frame

    Exactly as above but substitute BlackMagic UltraStudio 3D

     

    As you note, your own editing style will dictate whether this is unbearable, or scarcely noticeable.

     

     

    HP z820, Decklink Extreme+, Areca RAID, Artist Colour, Symphony 6 // MBP17, UltraStudio3D, Pegasus TB RAID, MC6 [view my complete system specs]
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