Latest post Tue, Dec 5 2017 5:24 PM by CinéMatica. 96 replies.
Page 1 of 7 (97 items) 1 2 3 4 5 Next > ... Last »
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Wed, Dec 7 2011 6:18 AM

    • jdbrewer
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Nov 2 2006
    • Salt Lake City, Utah
    • Posts 53
    • Points 875

    Artist Color Control Surface

    If you are using the Artist Color control surface with Symphony, I would like to know if you've found a resource for learning / customizing the sytem with Symphony.  The current manual only refers to FCP and Apple Color.  

    I'm quite please with what the unit can do.  But very disapointed in how little it has been integrated into the Avid Symphony environment.  Basically, it's only useful when in Color Correction mode, and even then, is limitied primarily to the Media Composer set of color tools.  It does allow for some interaction in the secondary color panel.  But none in Levels or Channels.  Also, the Eucon software only allows for (as far as I can tell) customizing the 9 softkeys.  Other buttons, knobs, balls and dials are not assignable by the user.

    Hopefully there is a resource somewhere that I have missed that makes this cool piece of hardware much more usefull.  It kind of feels like it wasn't quite ready to come out of the oven (for Symphony).  Hopefully someone proves me wrong.

    Dual Boot Symphony/DS Nitris [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Dec 8 2011 5:23 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Burbank, CA
    • Posts 2,993
    • Points 37,720

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    You can also use it for transport and other functions when not in Color mode. But I have to agree with you about it not being ready. It is very laggy and steppy on both Mac and PC Symphony in my testing. But it works great with Apple's Color.

     

    To get a sense of just how not ready it is, check out Avid's own pages about the product. Where do you see MC or Symphony mentioned as supported anywhere on these pages?

     

    http://www.avid.com/US/products/Artist-Color

     

    http://www.avid.com/US/products/Artist-Color/applicationsupport

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

    Burbank, Ca

    www.alphadogs.tv

    www.digitalservicestation.com

    www.editorslounge.com

  • Thu, Dec 8 2011 7:57 PM In reply to

    • SSEdgar
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Aug 9 2007
    • Posts 42
    • Points 595

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    This is a shame. I went to the Avid 6 event wanting to try out the device because I was ready to start testing them here, but they were not even functioning at the event. 

    I would like to know others impressions of the control panel. 

  • Thu, Dec 8 2011 8:48 PM In reply to

    • John Moore
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Feb 3 2006
    • Studio City, CA
    • Posts 392
    • Points 4,440

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    I was at the Hollywood Roosevelt event and I found the unit in the lobby not working so I went to the demo unit on stage at the end of the night.  I'm use to a kennsington expert mouse for hue offsets and many have told me the feel is similar.  It is laggy and chunky to many but for me I'm use to that type of response from the Kennsington expert mouse track ball so it's nothing new but the ball are smaller and that exacerbates the issue.  I'd like to use it to get use to multiple balls adjusting parameters to see how that speeds things up but I'm so use to a wacom tablet with the expert mouse and an additional numeric keypad all placed on the table it's going to be hard to see much gain over my regular approach.  The knob sensitivity was also problematic for me in that if you twist quickly it jumps a lot.  I'm told that is somewhat adjustable but it's not in the color panel manual but in the Avid docs so I've been told.  I'd prefer a more absolute feel to the knobs like you would get on a standard TBC contol panel or the old zaxcom TBC remotes with a rotary photo sensitive knob that felt like an old TBC knob.

    Symphony Nitris and Nitris DX 4.x and MCsoft 5.x & 5.5x, MCsoft 6, Artist Color [view my complete system specs]

    John Moore Barking Trout Productions bigfish@pacbell.net

  • Thu, Dec 8 2011 8:58 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Burbank, CA
    • Posts 2,993
    • Points 37,720

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    The sensitivty is adjustable. The default ia about in the middle.

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

    Burbank, Ca

    www.alphadogs.tv

    www.digitalservicestation.com

    www.editorslounge.com

  • Thu, Dec 8 2011 9:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Hi JD,

    As someone who worked on integrating the surface to work with Symphony, I'd like to hear how you would like the panel to work with levels and channels?  In my discussions with several editors, they indicated that the Levels and channels tabs didn't really suite adjustment by the control surface, so we elected not to try and do anything there for now.  If you have an idea how you imagine it would work, I'd love to hear it.

    As to customizing the color surface, the 9 soft keys are all that is currently available in the Eucon software to be mapped.  That's the way it was built.  Doing more would have taken many months of custom integration work which would mean v6 would still not be here.  Since we had people beating down the doors for it, we shipped it working as it was designed.  Again, i'd be very curious to hear your thoughts about what else you'd like to see the surface do.

    Please understand, Artist Color went through a lot of beta testing, and those folks told us it was absolutely ready to come out of the oven.  We wouldn't have released it otherwise.

    Thanks,

    Doug

    BTW, the manual to reference is the Symphony manual for v6, not the Artist Color manual.

  • Thu, Dec 8 2011 10:10 PM In reply to

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    John Moore:
    It is laggy and chunky to many but for me I'm use to that type of response from the Kennsington expert mouse track ball so it's nothing new but the ball are smaller and that exacerbates the issue.

    John makes an interesting point here about the fact that Media Composer and Symphony CC is not the smoothest when using a mouse.  As many have pointed out, the CC engine in MC/Symph has been around for a long time, and while it certainly needs to be refreshed (something we are actively working on btw) it's true the the color surface cannot be smoother than the mouse in terms of granularity for now.  We didn't change the CC engine for v6, we simply connected the Artist Color surface to it.  So, some moves may feel slightly steppy in a few places, but overall the large crew of testers said they love it! Yes you can adjust multiple things at once! I'm turning the blacks down while bumping the up whites on my Color surface simultaneously just now and it's sweet!  Sounds like the Color surface John ran into at the Hollywood event had some pre-release software on it, because mine is smooth when I crank it quickly.  We did have a lot of acceleration turned on in previous beta builds, and we tamped it way down before we shipped.  Of course the sensitivity has a lot of effect on that too, so it's possible for someone to go in and really screw things up.  Luckily it's easy to reset.

    Btw, the sensitivity is accessed by pressing the "NAV" key and pressing the rightmost softknob for "setup"

    Doug

     

  • Sat, Dec 10 2011 5:59 AM In reply to

    • John Moore
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Feb 3 2006
    • Studio City, CA
    • Posts 392
    • Points 4,440

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    That sounds promising.  Just to be clear the Kennsington expert mouse is really a trackball.  As I mentioned it's larger size seems to give it a better feel overall but the granularity seems comprable. Not to speculate but from what I'm reading here it sounds like the granularity could be improved by some coding tweaks under the hood.

    Symphony Nitris and Nitris DX 4.x and MCsoft 5.x & 5.5x, MCsoft 6, Artist Color [view my complete system specs]

    John Moore Barking Trout Productions bigfish@pacbell.net

  • Fri, Dec 16 2011 8:51 AM In reply to

    • jfay
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 41
    • Points 465

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Doug.Hansel:

    Hi JD,

    As someone who worked on integrating the surface to work with Symphony, I'd like to hear how you would like the panel to work with levels and channels?  In my discussions with several editors, they indicated that the Levels and channels tabs didn't really suite adjustment by the control surface, so we elected not to try and do anything there for now.  If you have an idea how you imagine it would work, I'd love to hear it.

    As to customizing the color surface, the 9 soft keys are all that is currently available in the Eucon software to be mapped.  That's the way it was built.  Doing more would have taken many months of custom integration work which would mean v6 would still not be here.  Since we had people beating down the doors for it, we shipped it working as it was designed.  Again, i'd be very curious to hear your thoughts about what else you'd like to see the surface do.

    Please understand, Artist Color went through a lot of beta testing, and those folks told us it was absolutely ready to come out of the oven.  We wouldn't have released it otherwise.

    Thanks,

    Doug

    BTW, the manual to reference is the Symphony manual for v6, not the Artist Color manual.

    Hi Doug,

      I just wanted to give you a little feedback as I've just now been using the Artist Color for the first time with Symphony for the last couple of hours.  At first I really liked the surface, although I did find the manual quite useless.  I see you are referring us to the symphony manual, so I will look there.  

      Overall I don't mind the lagginess too much, although I'm still trying to decide if it slows me down or speeds things up, and if it does speed things up is it performance that's worth $1600.  I seemed to have initially settled in the middle with using my mouse and keyboard for moving around and occasionally jumping over to the rotary wheels/hue trackballs to make adjumstments.    I think my biggest disappointment is the lack of support for Highlights/Mids/Shadow - Lift/Gamma/Setup control.  We only have control over the elements in Media Composer.  I was really expecting to be able to tab over and activate the controls on the different sliders.  The Hue color wheels are about right, and the secondary is reasonably useful, but lack of customization for any of the other Symphony controls is rather disappointing.  I'm actually considering sending it back because of that.  In a demo a couple of days ago out at Microsoft I saw the Avid rep assigning new control points on the curves, but I was unable to get that function working.  Perhaps I'll refer to the Symphony manual to see if I can glean any more info.  Perhaps I will buy the unit again when it's better implemented as it is in FCP Color.  

  • Fri, Dec 16 2011 8:22 PM In reply to

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    jfay:
    I think my biggest disappointment is the lack of support for Highlights/Mids/Shadow - Lift/Gamma/Setup control.  We only have control over the elements in Media Composer. I was really expecting to be able to tab over and activate the controls on the different sliders.  The Hue color wheels are about right, and the secondary is reasonably useful, but lack of customization for any of the other Symphony controls is rather disappointing.

    Hi, can you be more specific regarding your biggest dissapointment?  Are you saying that you routinely adjust the gain in the shadows for instance?, extreme example I know, but you can do some crazy stuff with the funky Symphony controls that other color correction software doesn't do.  In speaking to many editors, most all agreed they never used anything but "master" in the HSL tab controls.  Our biggest concern was that editors could accidently land on the "highlights tab" in HSL Controls and try to adjust the setup and wonder why their blacks were not moving.  Do you use the different tabs frequently?  If so, it would be good to hear the context.  What we planned to do was to allow the use of those specialty tabs only when an editor specifically clicked on them.  However, it didn't get done for this release.  Maybe you are talking about something completely different?

    Can you give examples of how you'd like to see the surface used for the "other Symphony controls" that you mention?

    Thanks.

  • Sat, Dec 17 2011 6:12 AM In reply to

    • John Moore
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Feb 3 2006
    • Studio City, CA
    • Posts 392
    • Points 4,440

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    I use the HSL almost exclusively in the Highs, Mids and Lows.  This is after setting the Master HSL setup and gain in the Curves Tab.  I find I have more control and accuracy pushing blacks with the low HSL than I do using curves.  I find those controls seem a little cleaner to me than using the luma in curves. This may not be anything more than typing in numbers into the HSL High, Mid and Low are more precise than dragging or using the cursor buttons to move pts on the luma curve.  To push things more drastically I use the curves.  I just purchased an Artist Color but won't have a symphony to play on in the foreseable future but am I reading here that only the master HSL is accessable through the panel?

    Symphony Nitris and Nitris DX 4.x and MCsoft 5.x & 5.5x, MCsoft 6, Artist Color [view my complete system specs]

    John Moore Barking Trout Productions bigfish@pacbell.net

  • Sat, Dec 17 2011 8:37 AM In reply to

    • jfay
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 41
    • Points 465

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Doug.Hansel:

    jfay:
    I think my biggest disappointment is the lack of support for Highlights/Mids/Shadow - Lift/Gamma/Setup control.  We only have control over the elements in Media Composer. I was really expecting to be able to tab over and activate the controls on the different sliders.  The Hue color wheels are about right, and the secondary is reasonably useful, but lack of customization for any of the other Symphony controls is rather disappointing.

    Hi, can you be more specific regarding your biggest dissapointment?  Are you saying that you routinely adjust the gain in the shadows for instance?, extreme example I know, but you can do some crazy stuff with the funky Symphony controls that other color correction software doesn't do.  In speaking to many editors, most all agreed they never used anything but "master" in the HSL tab controls.  Our biggest concern was that editors could accidently land on the "highlights tab" in HSL Controls and try to adjust the setup and wonder why their blacks were not moving.  Do you use the different tabs frequently?  If so, it would be good to hear the context.  What we planned to do was to allow the use of those specialty tabs only when an editor specifically clicked on them.  However, it didn't get done for this release.  Maybe you are talking about something completely different?

    Can you give examples of how you'd like to see the surface used for the "other Symphony controls" that you mention?

    Thanks.

    Yes I adjust gamma gain and shadow gain quite frequently.  After all isn't the point of a symphony to have this fine controls?  I also like to dial down highlight highs sometimes to pull back the sky or own out windows.  Not having this accessible means I might as well be running composer, right?  I love that fine control and that was one of the main reasons I got the artist color.  I do mostly color correction and onlining.  I suppose an argument could be made that I should just use davinci, but I was hoping to keep it in program and upgrading to symphony and artist color was supposed to help me do that.  I'd like to have the ability to adjust everything in the HSL tabs.  I don't need levels or the curves per se, because those are pretty easy to manipulate with a mouse.  As a matter of fact I used to almost exclusively use curves.  Since upgrading to symphony I haven't used them much.  Id like to be able to click on highlights and adjust those with the soft knobs.  What would e great is if I could program three soft keys so that I could navigate the master, shadow, gamma and highlight sliders and adjust them with the knobs and wheels.  Trackballs can stay with hue.  I still haven't seen how yet, but it would also be nice to be able to manipulate and add points on the curves with the trackballs and wheels.

    Filed under: ,
  • Sat, Dec 17 2011 8:39 AM In reply to

    • jfay
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 41
    • Points 465

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    John Moore:

    That is correct, and also a pretty decent control of the secondaries.

  • Mon, Dec 19 2011 11:08 PM In reply to

    • Abeyta
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Phoenix
    • Posts 198
    • Points 2,465

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    jfay:
    Yes I adjust gamma gain and shadow gain quite frequently.  After all isn't the point of a symphony to have this fine controls?  I also like to dial down highlight highs sometimes to pull back the sky or own out windows.  Not having this accessible means I might as well be running composer, right?

    I use the HSL Highlight/Mid/Shadow adjustments everyday too. In my opinion, they are one of the better cc features that separate Symphony from MC. I can really fine tune a shot with these controls. Can't believe they don't work with the color control panel. 

    Mac Pro 2013 6 Core 3.5ghz, MC Symphony 8.7, 16GB RAM, D700, OS 10.10.5, Ultrastudio 4K, Pegasus2 R6 12TB [view my complete system specs]

     

    Derrick Abeyta | Blu Pixel

    Phoenix, Arizona

    www.blupixelpost.com

     

  • Tue, Dec 20 2011 3:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Thanks guys,

    We're looking into it.  Would you agree that it's not good to accidentally get into one of those specialty tabs with the surface?
    i.e., I would like it to be slightly harder to step out of of the Master tab.  Remember, that with the current UI, you could be displaying Hue Offsets and when you grab your luminance controls, you may not see which tab is selected.  This is why in the original spec, I wanted folks to have to manually click on the shadow, mid, hi tabs to take the surface into that mode, versus the normal "master" luminance tab.  Everyone I talked with said that for speed, they didn't want to accidentally land in the wrong tab and wonder why the luminance controls weren't working "normally".  I would still like to get that functionality in, just want to do it in a way that doesn't slow folks down and confuse them.

Page 1 of 7 (97 items) 1 2 3 4 5 Next > ... Last »

© Copyright 2011 Avid Technology, Inc.  Terms of Use |  Privacy Policy |  Site Map |  Find a Reseller