About

Learn how to use professional film and video editing software with the latest cameras and formats to grow your skills as a media pro. Connect with the experts at Avid Training Services.

 

RSS Feed: Expert Connections

 

PRO TOOLS 8 The most advanced audio creation and production software EVER! Click to learn more

Have a Suggestion?

What topics or features would you like to see us cover?

 

Email us your suggestions today!

Podcasts

Now podcasting in high definition on iTunes. Subscribe and watch Expert Connections in the office, at home or on-the-go.

 

iTunes: Expert Connections (HD)

Add Expert Connections to your site

Expert Connections

Avid Editor QuickTime Workflow For Proper Brightness Levels

Only published comments... Jul 24 2008, 03:18 PM by jkwan

Justin Kwan, Avid Software Engineer, offers insight into his workflow for importing and exporting QuickTime movies to achieve proper brighness levels.
(Reposted from Kwancentral)

 

There seems to be a decent amount of confusion about which settings should be selected when exporting a video as QuickTime, and then importing the QuickTime movie into an Avid editor. In this article I will describe the proper settings for exporting video out of a third-party application such as Adobe After Effects using the Avid QuickTime DNxHD codec, and then importing the QuickTime DNxHD movie into an editor. Four workflows are shown, one of which is invalid.

 

This same workflow should hold true for all the Avid QuickTime codecs. It will not apply to non-Avid QuickTime codecs.

Exporting Source Material With RGB Levels



Source media with RGB levels


If you start with source material with RGB levels (0-255), such as the image above, you should select the RGB button in the QuickTime export options shown below. This is because the option in the QuickTime dialog specifies the levels of the source material. However, it isn't a disaster if you don't select the RGB button.

Assume you export two movies. The first has RGB level source material and is exported with the RGB option selected. This is called RGBsource_RGBOption.mov. The second movie has RGB level source material and is exported using the 709 option. This movie is called RGBsource_709Option.mov.

 

 

Select the RGB brightness option with RGB source material.
 
Importing Source Material With RGB Levels

When you import RGBsource_RGBOption.mov into the editor, select the 601/709 option to perform a quick import. Selecting the RGB button will bring the video in at the correct levels, but it will be a slow import. It is OK to select the 601/709 button as the levels within the QuickTime movie were converted to 709 compliant levels when the RGB button was selected on export. Quick import copies the 709 compliant video data from the QuickTime movie to the editor. See the image below for the optimal setting when bringing this movie into the editor.



Select the 601/709 option for import of RGB source material.


 
If you look at the levels while in color correction mode, you can see that the darkest black is 16 and the brightest white is 235 as shown in the image below. The left side of the color picker represents the darkest black value and the right side of the color picker represents the brightest white value. The levels of the imported media are correct.
 


RGB source material imported into the editor

 
When you import RGBsource_709Option.mov, you must select the RGB button in the editor import dialog as shown below. Selecting the 601/709 option will cause the video to come in at RGB levels.



Select the RGB button for import of RGB material exported with 709 option selected.
 

Exporting Source Material With 709 Levels

 
Source media with 709 compliant levels.

When you export source material that is already 709 level compliant, as shown above, the 709 button should be selected in the QuickTime dialog options as shown below. The RGB button should never be selected in this scenario, as this will not import into the editor with 709 compliant levels. Assume you export two movies. The first contains 709 level compliant source material and is exported using the 709 option. This movie is called 709Source_709Option.mov. The second movie contains 709 compliant source levels and is exported improperly using the RGB option. This movie is called 709Source_RGBOption.mov.



Select the 709 button for 709 compliant source material.

 
Importing Source Material With 709 Levels

Import 709Source_709Option.mov using the 601/709 option. This is the only option that can be selected for proper import of this movie.

Now,  import 709Source_RGBOption.mov. No matter whether you select the RGB import option or the 601/709 option, the imported levels will be incorrect as shown below.



Media imported into the editor when 709 material is exported using the RGB option.

 

Post by Justin Kwan

Comments

 

lmerino said:

So, in other words, when exporting out of After Effects and selecting either 601 or RGB in the quicktime options, you are essentially telling Quicktime what type of format you are GIVING IT (not what it will become)... and no matter what, the Quicktime file is going to act as a 601/709 file?  Meaning, there is no such thing as an DNxHD compressed Quicktime with RGB levels?

July 28, 2008 10:19 PM
 

jkwan said:

Yes,when exporting, you are telling Quicktime which format you are giving it, and the codec will keep it at 601/709 levels or convert it to 601/709 levels based on your selection. This is done so that when the file is fast imported into Media Composer, it will copy the data from the Quicktime file into Media Composers without having to modify those levels.

If you have source material that contains RGB levels, and then press the 601/709 button when exporting to QuickTime (lying about what you really have) the Quicktime movie will contain RGB levels.

August 1, 2008 4:52 PM
 

Mondo said:

So Justin, just to avoid confusion, I take it you changed the button in the pixel aspect section for another reason? (I'm referring to image 5) Those buttons have nothing to do with colour levels do they?

August 6, 2008 4:44 AM
 

lmerino said:

I would love an expansion on this post to just to talk about exporting quicktimes from Avid.  If Avid natively works in 601/709, then what exactly are you doing when you export either RGB or 601 out of Avid.

August 7, 2008 7:59 PM
 

jkwan said:

Mondo,

Those buttons don't have anything to do with color level. Actually, you have a good catch, the wrong button is selected.

August 8, 2008 2:19 PM
 

jkwan said:

lmerino,

That is a good suggestion for a post.

August 8, 2008 2:20 PM
 

dresfilm said:

I recently made a Quicktime from my timeline on my Adrenaline (DV Timeline) using the "source settings" and it CRUSHED the blacks.  Is this the same thing going on here?  Other codec settings didn't seem to do that.  Any ideas?

Thanks

August 15, 2008 8:23 PM
 

BBavid said:

This article is pretty good, but Avid listen to your users - I just had a conversation today with a person who switched to another system just because this issue has not been resolved for several years.

Back in the Merdien days, this didn't seem to be an issue.  So whether it is part of Avid or due to Quicktime, it needs to be fixed.

We're in a world where clients are providing us source footage in quicktime - they don't know if it came from tape, P2, telecined, you name it - all they know is how it looks before it went into Avid and that they expect it to look the  same when it comes out.

I've tried with numerous pieces of footage and every setting you can think of and it still boils down to that the blacks get crushed and the whites clipped, or that the blacks get washed out.

I've used other editing systems and this is a total non issue.  Editor's can't spend an hour importing a quicktime given to them by a client who has no tech knowledge, only to discover that it was RGB and not 601, etc.

So Avid, please please fix this issue.  It's been around for too long and the descriptions in the import and export menu does not account for dealing with people who aren't tech savvy.  It's not just the editor making these files, it's our clients.

Quicktime in = quicktime out - that's the way it should be...

January 14, 2009 9:39 PM
 

Avidon said:

Great information.

But I just want to clarify one thing.  Jkwan, when importing the RGBsource_RGBOption.mov into avid by selecting the RGB option (in avid import settings dialogue box), you mention that: "Selecting the RGB button will bring the video in at the correct levels, but it will be a slow import".  I am a bit confused here.  If Avid converts the levels from RGB to 601/709 when the RGB option is checked on exporting RGB source material, then your RGBsource_RGBOption.mov already contains the "converted to 601/709" material, right?  And if you import this very movie in avid using RGB option in import dialog box, wouldn't avid try to again convert this movie to 601/709 on import because by checking the RGB option in the import dialog box, you are essentially telling avid that this movie contains RGB material, therefore please convert it to 601/709, right?  Then how come avid is able to bring in your RGBsource_RGBOption.mov at the correct level, as you mentioned in your article, by checking the RGB box on import.

February 4, 2009 6:53 PM

Leave a Comment

login or create an account to post a comment.